Cheap compact wort pump

Wolfairious said:

Got a pic of the inside? Trying to figure out how you got the 'in' and 'out' on the same side of that little box. Since the pump has them in a 'L' configuration.

Click to expand...

Here you go...

I opted to not mount the pump via the bracket for two reasons:

1) I needed to rotate it at an angle to get the outlet aimed correctly
2) The threaded inlet collar is beefier than the plastic mounting base anyway

Because the clearance of the outlet didn't allow the CPVC elbow to fit, I used my heat gun to form the connecting piece. This allowed me to mount the QD's directly to the threaded portions of the pump and the CPVC connector to act as bulkhead fittings thru the project box wall using some large OD washers to firm things up as that's where there will be pressure on the box to insert/release the QD's etc...

The connecting piece of CPVC appears more collapsed at the angle in the pic than it does in person. In any case, the inner diameter of the pump outlet is actually smaller than the ID of the CPVC, so there's no real restriction. I tested the pump flow after it was all plumbed together, and it was nowdifferent that when running solo.

The pump PWM controller, on/off switch, and speed adjust pot all mount directly on the lid. The power connector is epoxied in the lower left corner.

Hope this helps

As mentioned the stuff is cheaper on ebay than amazon I find it easier to sort by price on ebay myself. The pumps start at $18 on ebay and the pwm controller shown above is less than $9 shipped here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131147152783?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The frequency of that pwm controller is 16khz so it will get the motor a louder humming noise than a 22+khz pwm controller which may control the motor better as well... I use 24khz ones that cost $6 but dont have the fancy pwm% meter... I use a flowmeter to measure flow since the pwm knob is too touchy and unreliable.

The box is neat but It would seem to me it would make priming the pump more difficult and if you ever spring a leak you canl have a scary mess. Some will argue it would make cleaninga mess but I found the pumps dont need to be disassembled to be cleaned... I run pbw through them and they are designed to be submersable so you could drop them in starsan if you were using them on the cold side after the boil.

augiedoggy said:

As mentioned the stuff is cheaper on ebay than amazon I find it easier to sort by price on ebay myself. The pumps start at $18 on ebay and the pwm controller shown above is less than $9 shipped here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131147152783?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The frequency of that pwm controller is 16khz so it will get the motor a louder humming noise than a 22+khz pwm controller which may control the motor better as well... I use 24khz ones that cost $6 but dont have the fancy pwm% meter... I use a flowmeter to measure flow since the pwm knob is too touchy and unreliable.

The box is neat but It would seem to me it would make priming the pump more difficult and if you ever spring a leak you canl have a scary mess. Some will argue it would make cleaninga mess but I found the pumps dont need to be disassembled to be cleaned... I run pbw through them and they are designed to be submersable so you could drop them in starsan if you were using them on the cold side after the boil.

Click to expand...

Like I said, the few bucks I'd save aren't worth it for me.. but glad you enjoy eBay.

As for the other stuff... all the parts are practically disposable, and the entire thing takes only a few minutes to take apart. So if something fails, clogs etc.. .it's not a big deal to up it open and clean/replace a part.

So far running ~40 gallons of hot and cold liquid through it and no leaks/problems. Run some StarSan through it to clean the pump/lines/fittings on the pump as well as my tun and kettle, and it's as clean as a whistle.

Some reports suggest they only last for 20-40 hours of use. For me that will be 3-5 years of brewing. I'd be more than happy to pony up the $20 for a replacement pump after that time.

Oh, and after listening to a jet burner for a couple of hours, I'd suggest a little PWM noise is the least of issues.... doesn't everybody have some good tunes cranked up while brewing anyway?

But thanks for the... uh.. "feedback".

-sc

As far as I can tell those tan pumps are not designed to be submersible. You can see that the cables and rear of the motor are not sealed.

There are black ones that are submersible but they are completely sealed and are advertised as such.

orangehero said:

As far as I can tell those tan pumps are not designed to be submersible. You can see that the cables and rear of the motor are not sealed.

There are black ones that are submersible but they are completely sealed and are advertised as such.

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The tan pump that I bought is also listed as submersible...

12V Tan Pump

Yeah the tan ones can be submersed. Never had an issue. The wires are sealed to the pump with an epoxy and a silicone cover.

orangehero said:

As far as I can tell those tan pumps are not designed to be submersible. You can see that the cables and rear of the motor are not sealed.

There are black ones that are submersible but they are completely sealed and are advertised as such.

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The 7 tan pumps I have are sealed and submersible... the cord is only 12" long so they are not meant to go deep but if cord was sealed correctly where it was wired to the extension it could be done.

scaesare said:

Like I said, the few bucks I'd save aren't worth it for me.. but glad you enjoy eBay.

As for the other stuff... all the parts are practically disposable, and the entire thing takes only a few minutes to take apart. So if something fails, clogs etc.. .it's not a big deal to up it open and clean/replace a part.

So far running ~40 gallons of hot and cold liquid through it and no leaks/problems. Run some StarSan through it to clean the pump/lines/fittings on the pump as well as my tun and kettle, and it's as clean as a whistle.

Some reports suggest they only last for 20-40 hours of use. For me that will be 3-5 years of brewing. I'd be more than happy to pony up the $20 for a replacement pump after that time.

Oh, and after listening to a jet burner for a couple of hours, I'd suggest a little PWM noise is the least of issues.... doesn't everybody have some good tunes cranked up while brewing anyway?

But thanks for the... uh.. "feedback".

-sc

Click to expand...

Well the "feedback" was from 3 years of using 7 of these... I can tell you from both my experience and many others here if you dont do a good job of pre filtering with these pumps they will constantly jam up on you... and then all the additional time to took to enclose the pump into your electrical panel and add the additional bends might not seem like the best idea...The pumps also get very hot when pumping hot liquid and submersing them when doing this is not recommended for that application so not really sure how well they will like being enclosed in a small box... It probably wont have an effect but its worth mentioning.

and just to be clear here. My comments were meant for others since I'm sure you dont care to hear this, I have no idea what "a few" might mean to some but it means 3 or close to it to me and the savings are more like $10-15 like I mentioned the pwm controller alone is like 45% cheaper on ebay. Just trying to make that clear for others since some are squeezing every penny they spend past the SWMBO..

augiedoggy said:

...the SWMBO..

Click to expand...

Well there's your problem right there...

I plan to use mine mounted directly to my keggle's output valve via Cam locks. Like this pic (but not threaded direct to the valve). Mostly going to start out using mine to transfer water from my HLT to my mash tun. Then use a 2nd one hooked to a whirlpool arm to help cool my wort with my immersion chiller.

Or better yet, found a pic that shows them with cam locks

Sweet... I do likes me a camlock or quick-disconnect fitting...

Has anyone tried one of the higher volume pumps such as this 5.2 gpm one or this 3.2 gpm one? I'm curious how they well they work and what the white box is for.

Hmmm... seeing as they appear to be the same build and size as the other pumps discussed, I find it odd they are rating them for 20L/min @ 12VDC when the others are rated for 10L/min @ 24VDC.

I am using one of the 24V Yasoo Pumps and my pumping speed with no head pressure is right indeed at about 10L/min.

Maybe that box contains magic.

On edit: interesting... zooming in on the label says that pump draws 3.5A @ 12V. The one I've seen draws 500ma...

augiedoggy said:

As mentioned the stuff is cheaper on ebay than amazon I find it easier to sort by price on ebay myself. The pumps start at $18 on ebay and the pwm controller shown above is less than $9 shipped here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131147152783?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The frequency of that pwm controller is 16khz so it will get the motor a louder humming noise than a 22+khz pwm controller which may control the motor better as well... I use 24khz ones that cost $6 but dont have the fancy pwm% meter... I use a flowmeter to measure flow since the pwm knob is too touchy and unreliable.

Click to expand...

You can just barely hear the hum and I've found it useful to gauge priming and if it looses prime by the sound. Not that bad actually...but I agree totally with you.

scaesare said:

Hmmm... seeing as they appear to be the same build and size as the other pumps discussed, I find it odd they are rating them for 20L/min @ 12VDC when the others are rated for 10L/min @ 24VDC.

I am using one of the 24V Yasoo Pumps and my pumping speed with no head pressure is right indeed at about 10L/min.

Maybe that box contains magic.

On edit: interesting... zooming in on the label says that pump draws 3.5A @ 12V. The one I've seen draws 500ma...

Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that, too. And 1.5A for the other one. So they draw more power. Higher RPM maybe through a step-up transformer in the white box?

jcoxen said:

Yeah, I noticed that, too. And 1.5A for the other one. So they draw more power. Higher RPM maybe through a step-up transformer in the white box?

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Well, except that transformers work on AC, not DC.. and that whole affair is listed as a 12VDC setup.. which is what I assume the input to the magic box is. Or that box is a 12VDC power supply that takes 120VAC in or something...

So I dunno. I have a hard time believing that thing is capable of 7X the current disappation and 4X the flow rate at the same voltage.

Perhaps playing fast & loose with the specs...?

scaesare said:

Well, except that transformers work on AC, not DC.. and that whole affair is listed as a 12VDC setup.. which is what I assume the input to the magic box is. Or that box is a 12VDC power supply that takes 120VAC in or something...

Click to expand...

Sorry, been a while since I had to deal with DC power. Boost converter, not transformer.

So I dunno. I have a hard time believing that thing is capable of 7X the current disappation and 4X the flow rate at the same voltage.

Perhaps playing fast & loose with the specs...?

Click to expand...

Yep, kinda what I was wondering about. But false advertising? Really? No! </smart@ss mode off>

scaesare said:

Well there's your problem right there...

Click to expand...

I dont have one to worry about... I'm just saying theres just as many people here who are tight on money as the ones that arent. To some $15 might be a drop in the bucket but when we are comparing items where the most expensive component starts at $18 I think the savings can end up going a long way... I for one use 3 pumps plumbed into my setup with camlocks and controlled with pwm controllers... The savings on just those 3 controllers would have added up to $25.. with the pumps We would be close to $35.. Just trying to point out it adds up quick. anyway, I'm beating a dead horse so I'll let it rest.

jcoxen said:

Yeah, I noticed that, too. And 1.5A for the other one. So they draw more power. Higher RPM maybe through a step-up transformer in the white box?

Click to expand...

I linked those pumps a few times before hoping someone would try them... The 3.5a motor would simply be a more powerful motor as far as I can tell unless its actually the 36v version (they do make a 36v version according to the manufacturer) and the white box is a step up transformer/ boost as mentioned those take the additional amperage and convert it to higher voltage. someone with one would need to test the incoming voltage.

I upgraded my 3 12v pumps to the cheaper $18 24v ones and it was a worthwhile upgrade... close to a gallon more per minute.

augiedoggy said:

I linked those pumps a few times before hoping someone would try them... The 3.5a motor would simply be a more powerful motor as far as I can tell unless its actually the 36v version (they do make a 36v version according to the manufacturer) and the white box is a step up transformer/ boost as mentioned those take the additional amperage and convert it to higher voltage. someone with one would need to test the incoming voltage.

I upgraded my 3 12v pumps to the cheaper $18 24v ones and it was a worthwhile upgrade... close to a gallon more per minute.

Click to expand...

I sent a message to the eBay seller asking how this pump managed 5.2 GPM. My question and the seller's response is below...

New message to: comelili
This pump looks nearly identical to pumps rated at 2.1 GPM. How does this pump achieve 5.2 GPM?

Also, what is the white box attached to the power leads?

New message from: comelili Top Rated Seller(70,544PurpleShooting Star)
Thank you for your message.
The 2 pumps are different. And the white box included in this pump is a power converter to provide enough power for the pump.

Jolin

Click to expand...

I've asked him for a picture of the inside of the white box. I'll post it here if they send one.

augiedoggy said:

I linked those pumps a few times before hoping someone would try them... The 3.5a motor would simply be a more powerful motor as far as I can tell unless its actually the 36v version (they do make a 36v version according to the manufacturer) and the white box is a step up transformer/ boost as mentioned those take the additional amperage and convert it to higher voltage. someone with one would need to test the incoming voltage.

I upgraded my 3 12v pumps to the cheaper $18 24v ones and it was a worthwhile upgrade... close to a gallon more per minute.

Click to expand...

jcoxen said:

I sent a message to the eBay seller asking how this pump managed 5.2 GPM. My question and the seller's response is below...

I've asked him for a picture of the inside of the white box. I'll post it here if they send one.

Click to expand...

Boost converter to the higher voltage would be the logical answer. The next question is: Is it fixed voltage input or does it have the smarts built-in to accept PWM or variable input voltage to adjust RPM?

jcoxen said:

Sorry, been a while since I had to deal with DC power. Boost converter, not transformer.



Yep, kinda what I was wondering about. But false advertising? Really? No! </smart@ss mode off>

Click to expand...

Yeah... the 12VDC label is on the pump itself though. If that were just referring to the magic box input, they'd have to boost the pump to something like 48VDC... wonder how it would handle that...?

scaesare said:

Yeah... the 12VDC label is on the pump itself though. If that were just referring to the magic box input, they'd have to boost the pump to something like 48VDC... wonder how it would handle that...?

Click to expand...

Here's the response I got back from the eBay seller...

New message from: comelili Top Rated Seller(70,565PurpleShooting Star)
Thank you for your message.
I am sorry that it's very hard to open the power converter, that is what you called "white box" .
Actually the motor in the pump is 24V,but most users use 12V power source,so in this case,the manufacturer use this power converter to step up the 12V power source to 24V working voltage for the pump.That's the function of the white box.
If any question,please feel free to contact us.
Jolin

Click to expand...

Of course, that doesn't answer PlexVector's question...

Is it fixed voltage input or does it have the smarts built-in to accept PWM or variable input voltage to adjust RPM?

Click to expand...

...so I've submitted that question as well.

guys, All someone would have to do is check the voltage with a voltage meter...
Like I mentioned before these pumps are made with 12v,24v and 36v motors according to the manufacturer when I was researching them a couple years ago... the manufacturer will also make custom configurations.

http://topsflo.en.alibaba.com/produ...e_juice_drinking_processing_machine_pump.html

These guys make them too although I cant find the exact configuration on their site now.

http://www.dgshenpeng.com/en_asp/product.asp?cid=51&sortpath=0,51,&page=1

jcoxen said:

Here's the response I got back from the eBay seller...



Of course, that doesn't answer PlexVector's question... ...so I've submitted that question as well.

Click to expand...

augiedoggy said:

guys, All someone would have to do is check the voltage with a voltage meter...
Like I mentioned before these pumps are made with 12v,24v and 36v motors according to the manufacturer when I was researching them a couple years ago... the manufacturer will also make custom configurations.

http://topsflo.en.alibaba.com/produ...e_juice_drinking_processing_machine_pump.html

Click to expand...

Yep, I was overthinking it. Just cut loose the box and go with the native voltage of the pump, or get the pump you want without the box if that is cheaper.

PlexVector said:

Yep, I was overthinking it. Just cut loose the box and go with the native voltage of the pump, or get the pump you want without the box if that is cheaper.

Click to expand...

Pretty much what the vendor said.

New message from: comelili Top Rated Seller(70,594PurpleShooting Star)
You can't connect a PWM or variable input voltage controller directly with the input of this pump to adjust the flow rate.
But if you want to adjust it, you can remove the white box and connect the pump directly with a 24V power supply.
Then you can connect a PWM or variable input voltage controller with the 24V power supply and adjust the voltage to get different flow rate.

Jolin

Click to expand...

So at least we have a definitive answer.

jcoxen said:

Here's the response I got back from the eBay seller...

Click to expand...

Interesting. So I have the 24VDC version of that pump. It is spec'd @ 10L/min and draws 800mA. That's 19.2W

That pump apparently draws just about twice the power (42W, not including converter losses), and is spec'd to pump at twice the rate: 20L/min

I'm a tad surprised... I haven't seen any rated to draw that much current (~1.6A).

Given that it appears to be the same dimensions, if I can find the bare pump with that rating, I might swap it in to my box... my power supply and PWM controller already are rated for it. I'd just keep my existing one as a spare.

Thanks for asking the seller the questions.

scaesare said:

Interesting. So I have the 24VDC version of that pump. It is spec'd @ 10L/min and draws 800mA. That's 19.2W

That pump apparently draws just about twice the power (42W, not including converter losses), and is spec'd to pump at twice the rate: 20L/min

I'm a tad surprised... I haven't seen any rated to draw that much current (~1.6A).

Given that it appears to be the same dimensions, if I can find the bare pump with that rating, I might swap it in to my box... my power supply and PWM controller already are rated for it. I'd just keep my existing one as a spare.

Thanks for asking the seller the questions.

Click to expand...

Heres what I experienced... I have 3 of the 24v pumps powered off a 5 (or 7 cant remember) amp power supply I have a flow meter in my system and with just pumping water they pump just over 3 galllons per minute (when running 1 pump off of the supply in my control panel.) when brewing 6 or 11 gallons and recirculating through the grainbed, bazooka tube and stainless braid inside of that, through my long rims and back up to the top of my MT I measure about 1.8gpm average...
So the motor in these pumps would have to be different than the standard 24v version to get 5.2gpm. This makes one wonder why they are only sold with the solar panel mppt booster box?

I will say though 800ma does not power the pumps well from my experience. I found that even with the cheap 2 amp powersupply I had originally I saw the the pumps struggle when attempting to run at the same time... Even one pump on the 2 amp supply seemed to struggle when first turning on. I wouldnt use anything less than 2 amps for the supply myself.

That said the 24v version is a lot better than the 12v ones I started with.

Yeah, running a DC motor with a supply capped at the motor current rating is seldom a good idea. Startup current will exceed that nominal average.

I'm running my 24V pump from a 2.4A supply and it's happy enough.

Except when I'm cleaning my system I seldom run my 12v pump at full throttle so why convert to 24v? Just curious when they either break or die.

nealm said:

Except when I'm cleaning my system I seldom run my 12v pump at full throttle so why convert to 24v? Just curious when they either break or die.

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In my case I went with the 24V setup because I wanted the greater flow for transferring wort, mash water, etc... having twice the flow rate is helpful.

With the controller, I can crank it down to a lower rate when I want.

I actually max it out for cleaning, as the flow/pressure would more likely to help dislodge anything from the housing or lines...

I also went with the 24v versions with PWM to control speed/flow.

nealm said:

Except when I'm cleaning my system I seldom run my 12v pump at full throttle so why convert to 24v? Just curious when they either break or die.

Click to expand...

The only one that ever broke out of the 7 I own is the one I dropped and cracked... The others all run fine and see a lot of use... From what Ive found the biggest issue is people use garbage wall wort or inadequate power supplys, The second most common issue is people try to pump grain or heavy hop trub through them... They are too small to do this reliably and the fact that the wort goes between the coated magnet and the motor coil makes this issue worse..

The 24v motor is stronger so it takes more to bog it down but if the 12v is plenty for you than great... The 12v worked ok for me too.. even worked very well with my old herms coil but I found it interesting that some said they werent powerful enough to pump through the coil.. To me that would be a good indication they were underpowering it. I went with 24v mainly for the reasons above and because my plate chiller is mounted low and my conicals were much higher and a distance away. Plus I felt with the rims the additional flow and strength would help.

I did experiment with two pumps in a series and did find that it increases the flow considerably. I did this a few times while cleaning things like my chiller... The thing is bacuase I prefilter so well for these pumps I found I get no buildup in my chiller at all.

augiedoggy said:

...people use garbage wall wort ...

Click to expand...

I see what you did there...

scaesare said:

I see what you did there...

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Not Sure what you think im doing there but not all of them are garbage And Im not saying if someone uses a wall wort supply they will surely have issues.
But.. most of the ones people use are the $5 cheapy ones that are rated higher than their true capabilities.. I run into theses on a lot of products... the kodi android tv boxes I ordered for friends for example... out of the 7 or 8 I have ordered I had 3 power supplies either arrive DOA or fail shortly after. one worked but the box would crash a lot... turns out it was just not providing enough stable power to do the job.

He was commenting on your use of the word wort vs wart.

milldoggy said:

He was commenting on your use of the word wort vs wart.

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gotcha...lol it was unintentional... Wasnt sure if he thought I was picking on someone.. Just wanted to clarify I wasnt.

PlexVector said:

You can just barely hear the hum and I've found it useful to gauge priming and if it looses prime by the sound. Not that bad actually...but I agree totally with you.

Click to expand...

What does the circuit look like? Could be a simple matter of swapping a resistor to increase the frequency.

@orangehero,
Interesting thought--I may take one of mine apart to see when I have time, but if it is a 555 timer type circuit it could be as easy as swapping out a resistor or cap or if it is microprocessor based the frequency is typically controlled by software.

I had bought one of these beige pumps a while back and finally got to try it out yesterday.
Used it to vorlauf the mash in an igloo cooler and then pump from igloo cooler into kettle.
Also used it to pump from outlet of counterflow wort chiller into the top of a fastferment on a stand.

EDIT: I am talking about the 24V version of the beige pump

I also bought some cheap brass 1/2" BSP to 1/2" barbed adapters on eBay which are a requirement to do anything useful with this pump.

I am somewhat concerned using this at boiling temperatures so keeping uses below that for not.

I bought one of these for speed control


My power supply was a 18V laptop power brick and I bought a barrel jack to plug it in to.

It was a very janky set up but I will refine it for the next brew day.

Very satisfied.