Serious Career Advice Request

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Foreigner

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Hello: A little bit about me.

I'm 28, have a philosophy degree ( :drunk: ) , a job history in sales, and have been playing poker as my fulltime job for the past 18 months. I have been doing quite well but don't really see a serious future in it for me. Frankly I'm afraid to go "big time" with it.

I've done a little freelance writing as well, but don't see a REAL future in it either.

Do any of you have jobs that you actually like that I could check out that wouldn't require me to get another degree? I really don't even know where to begin.

I feel like my life could generally use more structure. I've been living inside my own mind for awhile now. Plus, to get a mortgage I'd need to go to a banker with more than "Yeah dude, I'm a professional poker player."

The last thing I want to do is get another sales gig though. I'm a good pimp, but don't really want to be one.

Any input/advise/job offers ;) would be greatly appreciated.

Help!
 
What jobs did you have in mind when you decided to major in Philophy?

Sounds like you seriously need to wake up. If you've been playing Poker for 18 months, you've been letting any job skills you have erode and your resume will have a big 18 month black hole. You might as well go back to school just to get the career counseling.
 
I have an undergrad degree in English and Philosophy, and I'm a grad student at the moment. Though I actually planned it this way (having heard all the same jokes about liberal arts that you've heard), I'd say that further schooling isn't the worst thing in the world, if the field/profession speaks to you. I'm studying theology, hoping to end up a professor, and the guidance/advice/knowledge I gained from earning a Master's have been tremendous. I'm starting a Ph.D. program this fall, and though it's a lot of school to go through, I'm more dedicated to it and am a lot happier than I was with the (pretty good) jobs I had before I went back to school. YMMV, of course, but I'd caution against ruling out grad school.
 
Cheesefood said:
What jobs did you have in mind when you decided to major in Philophy?

Sounds like you seriously need to wake up. If you've been playing Poker for 18 months, you've been letting any job skills you have erode and your resume will have a big 18 month black hole. You might as well go back to school just to get the career counseling.
Click to expand...

There is alot of truth to this. But a degree in philosophy is no more worthless than any other liberal arts degree.

I've been making decent money, but it is inconsistent. like being on commision or freelancing or the like.

Really the only "job skills" I've got are sales related. Schisterism doesn't fade with a long break, though the desire to do it might.

EDIT: I've got BS to put on ym resume for the last 18 months, so I'm not worried about that.
 
elkdog said:
I have an undergrad degree in English and Philosophy, and I'm a grad student at the moment. Though I actually planned it this way (having heard all the same jokes about liberal arts that you've heard), I'd say that further schooling isn't the worst thing in the world, if the field/profession speaks to you. I'm studying theology, hoping to end up a professor, and the guidance/advice/knowledge I gained from earning a Master's have been tremendous. I'm starting a Ph.D. program this fall, and though it's a lot of school to go through, I'm more dedicated to it and am a lot happier than I was with the (pretty good) jobs I had before I went back to school. YMMV, of course, but I'd caution against ruling out grad school.
Click to expand...

I would not be opposed to going back to school altogether. The idea of getting another worthless degree horrifies me though.

Career counselling has been a complete wash for me. "What do you like to do?" "What are you good at?"

If my best option is to go work in the oilfields or get another lousy sales job (which btw is what prompted me to go back to school and finish my degree.) I'd be better off really hustling the freelance writing market and playing poker.

30K a year doesn't sound too bad for entry level living on my own terms. But I want to do something more "normal" that I could enjoy. I just have no idea what that is.
 
What about teaching? Like highschool? Good hours, can keep up with brewing and poker, plus you get the summers off. Depending on your state you may or may not have to go back to school to do this.

If you like sales get into business. Drug sales rep? Good money there and I know a couple people that really like it. Can go back and get your MBA...not worthless.
 
Beerrific said:
What about teaching? Like highschool? Good hours, can keep up with brewing and poker, plus you get the summers off. Depending on your state you may or may not have to go back to school to do this.

If you like sales get into business. Drug sales rep? Good money there and I know a couple people that really like it. Can go back and get your MBA...not worthless.
Click to expand...

I applied to teachers college. It was something I was really into. My marks were where they needed to be but there were so many people applying and so few positions that it was a 10 to 1 shot. Needless to say, here I am. I could very well apply next year, but another 12 months of downtime sounds hard to stomach.

I'm in Canada, btw. I *could* teach at a montesorri school without another degree, but that kind of gig is really hard to get. I would be very happy if I were able to find one.

Maybe even something like tutoring in the meantime I would find agreeable.

Thanks for your input. I think I'm soured on sales for life.
 
I got my teaching degree in Canada. Applying to Teacher's College in Canada is just like he is saying. It's as competitive as getting into law school in the U.S. I guess that's what happens when you pay teachers commensurate with other professions with the same level of schooling (Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, etc.)
 
From your other threads it seems like you really enjoy cooking, how about something like that?

Granted, you wouldn't get the dream job without the experience/education, but you could always see if anyone's hiring a peon/grunt and get your foot in the door and work your way up from there ... and if you decide you like it, then you could always go to culinary school ....
 
DaveyBoy said:
From your other threads it seems like you really enjoy cooking, how about something like that?

Granted, you wouldn't get the dream job without the experience/education, but you could always see if anyone's hiring a peon/grunt and get your foot in the door and work your way up from there ... and if you decide you like it, then you could always go to culinary school ....
Click to expand...

I have thought about joining the brewing industry at the peon level, but I think the cleaning is the thing I like least about homebrewing and I really don't want to ruin one of my favourite hobbies.

I *do* like cooking, but I know quite a few people who have gone to culinary school and ended up boiling pasta (for example) at East Side Marios (shudder).

There is one "upscale" restaurant where I might have a connection to get into the kitchen. I do like to eat, so I of course am attracted to food. At the very least making a little money in the shortterm to eat better the rest of my life would be a good use of my time I think. :)
 
homebrewer_99 said:
Man, I feel for you.

I am eligible and planning on retiring in 2 years and I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. I'm dead serious!
Click to expand...

I believe it! I don't expect to find a lifelong solution for what to do, but something where I feel challenged and avoid feeling stagnant in the short term would be very nice thing.

I'm sick of making money in my underwear while drinking beer, you know? I could do it forever and make (half) decent money, but I don't really feel like I'm challenging myself while doing it.

Its nice to run into some positivity! I appreciate all your feedback.
 
Beers
Philosophy

roadhouse2.jpg


Swayze
 
Dude said:
I think you should become a Navy SEAL. Serious.
Click to expand...

Could you perhaps elaborate? I'm canadian so if I were to join the army I believe (but don't know for sure) that I would be an officer right off the bat because I have a degree. But this is thirdhand info.

I have been feeling a little bit out of shape recently ;) What do you see as the benefits of such a choice?

I have pondered a little about this and have thought myself more suited for CSIS than the army, but maybe thats just a conceit. It does interest me, but I really don't like being shot at...
 
Honestly, I'm not sure how you expect to get good information from a message board. What I find to be a great career (investments), others find to be dreadfully dull. Cheyco works on a freakin' oil rig, you could always go work for him! We have no idea what your interests are, what your skills are, what it is that you do well. Those are the kind of questions you need to ask yourself, ask the people that you are closest to.

The philosophy degree doesn't hurt, but that's not going to open any doors for you either. As far as I can tell, all it helps you do practically is be able to teach other people about philosophy (but you'll have to get a doctorate before anyone will hire you).
 
the_bird said:
Honestly, I'm not sure how you expect to get good information from a message board.
Click to expand...

To be honest I expected nothing but derision. :ban:
It was really just a place to start and spitball some ideas.

It *will not* I assure you, be philosophy related, but thats ok. I know very few people who have careers in the fields they expected. And if I'm really honest with myself I only have a degree because I stupidly believed (in my mid-teens) that that is what successful people do.

I guess my question is better put - "Do you have a job that you truly enjoy, that is not just something that you fell into, made some money, had some kids, and now do because you have to."

I rejected a sales gig 14 months ago for a frozen food company. I would have been good at it, been able to make 40-50K a year. And I believe the effort would have made me miserable.
 
the_bird said:
As far as I can tell, all it helps you do practically is be able to teach other people about philosophy (but you'll have to get a doctorate before anyone will hire you).
Click to expand...

You are completely correct about this. But I decided awhile back that academic philosophy is a wasteland.
 
You have it close to right, but in my opinion you need to work towards ultimate goals. My goal is to be able to retire at an age where I can enjoy travel, thrill-seeking, and time with my family. I'll get there by tolerating a job that wants me to bust my ass. I don't love what I do, but it has me on a course to love life greater. But those are my goals: an island home, maybe a brewpub.

You sound like you want to enjoy life NOW rather than LATER. Admirable, but you need to figure out how you can do it and how you can make sure you won't regret your decisions later.

Not too many people love their work. They might love their hobbies, but not their work. If I had a job I loved, I'd be a QA tester at a whore-house. But that ain't gonna happen, so I take what I got and make the best of it.
 
Cheesefood said:
You sound like you want to enjoy life NOW rather than LATER. Admirable, but you need to figure out how you can do it and how you can make sure you won't regret your decisions later.

Not too many people love their work. They might love their hobbies, but not their work. If I had a job I loved, I'd be a QA tester at a whore-house. But that ain't gonna happen, so I take what I got and make the best of it.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to say something trite like I don't want the freedom that money provides. Of course I want that. But you only get one shot at life. What if, god forbid, you don't make it to retirement age? I've only got one life, and I'm not willing to spend it in 40 years of indentured servitude for some far away dream that I might not get the chance to experience. I am still squirelling money away for retirement, I'm not crazy. But if I'm doing something I can really enjoy, sink my teeth into completely, then why would I ever want to retire?

If you really want a brewpub then take out loans up to your eyeballs and do it. If you fail then the worst that'll happen will be you declare bankruptcy. At least you tried. I don't know how old you are, if you have kids etc, so that might not be ideal for you, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.

You are a step ahead of me in that regard. At least you know, for sure, that is something you want.

Decisions are not regrettable, even wrong ones. Example: you might look at my poker as indecision, as "taking 18 months off.". But I "took my shot" so to speak. It isn't going to work as a lifelong career, but I'm quite proud of my success. I made more money then I would have in an entry level office job, and did it on my own terms.

And brothel QA is pretty damned frightening, you're pretty much ruined for the gig if you get a few bad batches ;)

Anyway, I want my cake and to eat it to, but I'm no baker.
 
I working in the homebuilding business for 17 years. I loved it. I loved being out in the field "Orchestaiting" (spellcheck) all the work being done. But alas, the future was starting to look dim, I amd 30 years old with no retirement, no savings plan, and no benifits. (healthcare, which living in canada one less thing to worry about). So I made the "grown up" decision and took a pay cut, cosiderable mind you, and now i amd a building inspector. Better hours, no grunt work, come home clean, full benny's and retirement options. But Am I trully happy? no. But one must sacrifice I guess, Unless you took your hobbie full scale. But would you be trully happy with that? Then your hobbie isn't a hobbie. It's now work.
 
Most of the people I work with (including me) are economists, statisticians, or public health professionals. But we hired a guy with a masters degree in Philosophy because he could think critically and wrote well. He did a great job and we were sorry to see him go (back to school for more philosophy).

IMHO, the ability to think critically (read or hear something, deconstruct its argument, and come up with plausible counter or supporting arguments) and communicate well (written or verbal) are two skills that are in demand all over the place. The fact that you can play poker for a living demonstrates at least some analytic intuition, which is a plus.

You might want to consider something like journalism (get a start by freelancing something) or health communications research. In stead of sales, try advertising and marketing.
 
Foreigner said:
I applied to teachers college. It was something I was really into. My marks were where they needed to be but there were so many people applying and so few positions that it was a 10 to 1 shot. Needless to say, here I am. I could very well apply next year, but another 12 months of downtime sounds hard to stomach.

I'm in Canada, btw. I *could* teach at a montesorri school without another degree, but that kind of gig is really hard to get. I would be very happy if I were able to find one.

Maybe even something like tutoring in the meantime I would find agreeable.

Thanks for your input. I think I'm soured on sales for life.
Click to expand...

Are you OK leaving Canada? I have no idea about immigration rules, but I know that you can get a teaching degree at almost any university in the States and there are lots of open teaching positions.
 
Foreigner said:
I guess my question is better put - "Do you have a job that you truly enjoy, that is not just something that you fell into, made some money, had some kids, and now do because you have to."



I fall into that category. I fell into a job that I love/ hate/ am good at / feel safe and comfortable in.
I still have no idea what I want to do.
I have a wife and children, so a career change is a frightening thing.

The thing is to have the nerve to just go for something you want to do. You've gotta pay the bills somehow. Get a job of some sort to have a current work history and feed yourself while you figure the future out.

As far as the Philosophy Degree... you could always find a lonely mountaintop and set yourself up in that line. Grow a long beard, make a little homebrew.:mug:

Wish I had a more helpful answer.
Click to expand...
 
brloomis said:
IMHO, the ability to think critically (read or hear something, deconstruct its argument, and come up with plausible counter or supporting arguments) and communicate well (written or verbal) are two skills that are in demand all over the place. The fact that you can play poker for a living demonstrates at least some analytic intuition, which is a plus.
.
Click to expand...

This seems to be the ultimate benefit of a philosophy degree. I've been told that phil students have a great shot at getting into law school because what they both boil down to is taking an intellectual system and twisting it until it turns into something you want it to be.

Poker, at its very core is about making more correct decisions than wrong ones. I'm toying with the idea of putting poker on my resume. If I can "own my own business" so to speak then what is so bad about that? I will likely *not* include it because there is so much hostility towards it though. that kind of freedom seems to mean to the outside world that I dont follow rules well, which is true.

You know what I'd really like? To have a steady stable part-time job - like teaching 3 days a week, though such an animal doesn't exist, and playing poker 3 days a week. It would be the best of both worlds I think.

My ultimate worry is that the only "real job" I could get would be sales related because that is my work experience background. I don't want to come home feeling dirty as I have so many times.

Really this thread should be called I feel the need to get a real job but don't want to be pigeon holed.
 
sudsmonkey said:
As far as the Philosophy Degree... you could always find a lonely mountaintop and set yourself up in that line. Grow a long beard, make a little homebrew.:mug:

Wish I had a more helpful answer.
Click to expand...

More than that, it is justifying that existence as the best one for a human being.

What is a person fundamentally?
What is the best life for that person based on the answer to that question?

I am quite lazy when it comes to shaving anyway ;)

Your feedback is helpful in its sincerity. Don't sell yourself short. Your positive concern is appreciated, and shows the kind of person that you are. As does cheeses negative nancy-ism.

P.S. I am WASTED> I am going to post my munich dunkel clone recipe in the next few days because it is AWESOmE!
 
fifelee said:
Are you OK leaving Canada? I have no idea about immigration rules, but I know that you can get a teaching degree at almost any university in the States and there are lots of open teaching positions.
Click to expand...

It could happen, and I have 1rst hand info that it would be very possbile. I just don't really want to end up 30K in the hole, and so likely wont do it.
 
smoke76 said:
So I made the "grown up" decision and took a pay cut, cosiderable mind you, and now i amd a building inspector..
Click to expand...

I have a friend who got an english degree (though he started in phil with me), who is now looking into property assesment as a good way to make money.

What is a building inspector exactly? Examinging rental properties to see if they ar eup to code? Evaluating residental properties to see what they are worth? If you could provide info on how to break into such a thing I'm sure my buddy would be most appreciative...
 

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