Berliner Weisse Brew

Hey everyone,

I recently brewed my first Berliner Weisse about a month and a half ago. I hit all my target temps and my O.G. The F.G. is spot on too. I just tasted a sample from the carboy about a week ago and the beer has absolutely no sour flavor at all. The malt base of the beer tastes spot on and the beer even smells sour. I used White Labs WLP630 Berliner Weisse blend, and I've kept it at 70 degrees in my fermentation chamber. I know it said to give up to a few months for the sour to develop, but I'm wondering, is there supposed to be a pellicle that will form on the surface of the beer? There is not one. I still plan on giving it another month or two and taking a few more samples. I'm just wondering if after 3 or 4 months, and there is no signs of souring, should I go ahead and pitch some more lactobacillus? Maybe I'm just being impatient or maybe it's my wife riding my ass about when it'll be ready to drink (Berliner Weisse is just about the only beer she'll drink. Haha). Cheers!

Shocking that White Labs would actually expect anyone to wait "several months to develop tart character" for a Berliner Weisse. link. That's absurd, especially since it's just lacto and sacc. You can make a great properly-soured Berliner Weisse (with lacto and sacc) from grain to glass in under 1 month by using kettle souring: run off the wort, pitch lacto, wait a couple days until properly sour, then boil or pasteurize or rack, then pitch your sacc yeast. Lots of discussion here and elsewhere.

If the beer doesn't sour after a few months, then you're probably screwed since there's likely already lacto in there; the problem is that the hops or alcohol or lack of sugars is stopping it. Sacc yeast generally outcompetes lacto, which makes this method not ideal. And if you've used ANY hops, you're probably screwed.

There's a lot to learn about doing a sour. Quite different from normal brewing processes.

Like SpeedYellow said, that stuff is a waste. At this point, your best bet would probably be to make a strong lactic beer and blend them. Get a good strong starter with omega lacto, pitch into the wort, and after a day or two pitch your sacch yeast. Blend them and give it a couple more weeks, and you should have a nice tart Berliner.

And to get started with Berliner Weisse, check out http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Main_Page

I highly recommend Goodbelly probiotic juice as your lacto source. Approx $4 per quart. No starter needed, just pitch 16 oz into 5-gal of wort. Will sour down to pH 3.2-3.4 in 30-40 hours at 90-95 F.

Leave that one alone and make another quick one.

No hops, sour with lacto, keping around 100 F. Could take a few days, could take a week. When sour enough (taste it), pitch a lot of yeast (2× normal amount), and it should be ready to package in about a further week.

I like to dry hop mine with Nelson Sauvin.

Ok, maybe that's where I went wrong. I added a little bit of hops during the boil. Just a quarter oz. Oops! Now, can I just make the second batch 1 or 2 gallons, pitch lactobacillus, let sit until sour, boil then add yeast and then add that to the five gallons I already have or should it be another full 5 gallon batch?

broffi_1027 said:

Ok, maybe that's where I went wrong. I added a little bit of hops during the boil. Just a quarter oz. Oops! Now, can I just make the second batch 1 or 2 gallons, pitch lactobacillus, let sit until sour, boil then add yeast and then add that to the five gallons I already have or should it be another full 5 gallon batch?

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I wouldn't waste any more time on this batch-- just write it off. You used hops so salvaging it is unlikely any time soon. Don't worry, the exact same thing happened to me on my 1st BW --- a tiny bit of hops stymied the lacto. Lesson learned! Start over, do it right, and you'll be drinking BW in just a few weeks.

I'd go the other way... If there are no off flavors other than lack of sour, what's the loss in trying to salvage it? It's worth a shot blending in a couple gallons of sour beer to bring the acid up in it. Worst case, add some additional 88% lactic acid. If nothing else, it's a good learning experience.

But start another batch right away as well!

So it's good, just not sour? Just drink it, and make a kettle soured batch next time. The batch is only a write-off as a sour, not a write-off as a beer!

And thank you for saving me from trying WLP630.

It does taste really good. If I can't get it to sour, I'll just add some fruit to it and just drink it as is. Thanks for all your input everyone. It is greatly appreciated. Cheers!

So, yesterday evening I pulled the carboy out of fermentation chamber and let it sit out in the open in my garage. I live in Arizona so my garage stays between 90 and 95 degrees. I just took a sample of my BW from the carboy and it tastes noticeably more sour now. It has a wonderful tropical fruity undertone. I'm gonna leave it for another 24 to 48 hours and see where it goes. If it doesn't get any more sour, it's still good to drink as is. Maybe I'll toss some fruit in or dry hop it. Just figured I'd give you all an update. Thanks again. Cheers!

Berliner Weisse

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wow that is a very white beer! I haven't seen anyone here mention using a bag of unmilled grain as a lacto source. I did two batches with a sour worting method using grain to inoculate earlier this year and they came out great.

To the threadstarter, on the next one I'm in the camp that says try doing the souring before pitching the sacc, should only take a few days. I held temps from 100-120*F and it took 3 days to drop to pH 3.2-3.4. I dumped 0.5 lb acid malt in at the end of the mash as well, apparently dropping the pH a bit before souring helps select for lacto growth.

Back to the topic of playing around with your berliner weiss. Agate suggested just adding some lactic acid to it, but you could also drop a bag of acidulated malt in, both to impart a bit of acid and to try and get the lactobacillus working. Bit riskier as far as contamination goes, but personally I wouldn't be too worried because the acid should be keeping the grains relatively clean from anything but lacto.

Your idea of adding fruit makes me wonder if limes or lime juice might be cool to play with.

I'd like to toss some black berries in it but my wife wants peaches and nectarines. If it doesn't get any more sour, I'll drop some lacto acid in it. Next time I brew it I'll do a sour mash. I don't really have time right now to brew a second batch to blend with this one.

Fruit should give you an extra hit of acid in the beer once the sugar ferments out. I added raspberries to a BW and it went from pleasantly tart to strip-the-enamel-off-your-teeth sour. Once the sugar is gone, peaches on their own are plenty tart.

Lime zest + lime juice + gose = friggin' yum!

Agate said:

Fruit should give you an extra hit of acid in the beer once the sugar ferments out. I added raspberries to a BW and it went from pleasantly tart to strip-the-enamel-off-your-teeth sour. Once the sugar is gone, peaches on their own are plenty tart.

Lime zest + lime juice + gose = friggin' yum!

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That's what I was thinking. The wife and I will have to come to am agreement on which fruit to add, if it gets to that point. Haha.

Agate said:

Fruit should give you an extra hit of acid in the beer once the sugar ferments out. I added raspberries to a BW and it went from pleasantly tart to strip-the-enamel-off-your-teeth sour. Once the sugar is gone, peaches on their own are plenty tart.

Lime zest + lime juice + gose = friggin' yum!

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That's what I was thinking. The wife and I will have to come to am agreement on which fruit to add, if it gets to that point. Haha

Sour grapes would probably be pretty tasty in a BW and would help boost the sour as well, I'd imagine.

Agate said:

Lime zest + lime juice + gose = friggin' yum!

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man, the combo of the juice and the zest was exactly what i was thinking! a gose with a bit of salt would be perfect, nice idea!

Here's a picture of one! Lime zest and juice at flameout, dry hopped with basil soaked in tequila. I could drink this all day long.

Edit: wrong photo attachedView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1438122334.502245.jpg

broffi_1027 said:

So, yesterday evening I pulled the carboy out of fermentation chamber and let it sit out in the open in my garage. !

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I've been sitting on a pineapple/grapefruit Berliner since April after using the same yeast/lacto blend. I wish I would've thought of moving it to my garage months ago! As soon as I read this, I moved my carboy.

Hopefully I get the sourness I'm looking for. Oh, and I doubt I will ever use WLP630 again.

Agate said:

Here's a picture of one! Lime zest and juice at flameout, dry hopped with basil soaked in tequila. I could drink this all day long.

Edit: wrong photo attachedView attachment 292889

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Holy sweet mother of Fritos! That looks and sounds fantastic! I have the same Northern Brewer glass as well. Haha.

broffi_1027 said:

Holy sweet mother of Fritos! That looks and sounds fantastic! I have the same Northern Brewer glass as well. Haha.

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I agree! Basil soaked in tequila is a crazy idea, where the heck did that one come from? My gf would have a terrible time making up her mind on that one...loves lime and basil, hates tequila.

Gotta sanitize it somehow, right? It actually tasted really good, the tequila pulled out some minty aromas. Can't really taste the tequila diluted in 5 gallons, but the basil comes through nicely in the aroma.

Agate said:

Gotta sanitize it somehow, right? It actually tasted really good, the tequila pulled out some minty aromas. Can't really taste the tequila diluted in 5 gallons, but the basil comes through nicely in the aroma.

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I may just have to try that sometime. Sounds incredible.

My Berliner Weisse is finally bottled and ready to drink. It turned out pretty good, given the circumstances. Letting the carboy sit out in my hot garage for about a week really helped the sour develop much faster. I will definitely kettle sour next time though, over using the White Labs Berliner Weisse Blend. Overall, it tastes good. Has a nice fruity tartness to it without being overpowering or sickly sour and good weizen phenolics. Finishes crisp and light. I sure am glad I didn't have to dump this batch. Thanks for all the advice everyone. Cheers!

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hey it's been a hot minute (hot...minute...get it?) glad the garage temp worked for ya, i'm drinking my last bottle of sour now and getting ready for a new batch. ahh sweet fruity tartness...

btw what's the cool looking thing in the background?

kaCHUNK said:

hey it's been a hot minute (hot...minute...get it?) glad the garage temp worked for ya, i'm drinking my last bottle of sour now and getting ready for a new batch. ahh sweet fruity tartness...

btw what's the cool looking thing in the background?

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Hey, thanks! It was a lot of fun, but next time I will kettle sour for sure. Looking forward to brewing it again in the future.

The thing in the background is an ice cream maker. Haha.