I am wiring up a PID controller with SSR to a 5500 W element. I will incorporate a switch to cut power in case of a boil over. Please post your wiring schematics that incorporate these features. The more detailed the better such that it shows the grounds connections and everything.
Electric brewery contol box schematic
- Thread starter pp270
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
hmm, don't have the schematic, right now my kill switch is the last thing in line before the BK
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
He will be pulling with a 5500W element at 220VAC, so he will need a 30A GFCI circuit. Grounding is really easy though. 5500W at 220VAC is 4622W at 220VAC which is 21.0A
You have a grounding bar in your panel. The ground that comes into your panel with your power, is attached there. Then you simply run a little green wire from the kettle to the grounding bar. One from your switch to the grounding bar... etc.
Grounding is easy, as you just connect a wire from the ground connection on everything, to that grounding bar. This is then connected to the ground you have running into your control panel, and back to your main panel where the neutral and ground are married up.
You can see my grounding bar in the back here, where the MAIN ground comes in. There are then 7 terminal connections where I can attach various ground wires.
I think you would want your Emergency Stop Switch to be the first thing in the box connected. I'd go;
Line In - E Stop - Everything else.
This way if there is any reason to hit it it kills everything.
Line In - E Stop - Everything else.
This way if there is any reason to hit it it kills everything.
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
E-Stops are a good idea...
However, if my rig is soaked in water and frying itself, I dont know that I want to get too close to it to hit that button LOL
POL is correct on the power source. I have a dedicated 30 amp GFI circuit to power the box. Thanks for the info on the ground bar that is easy.
POL: How did you connect the ground wire to the BK? Drill a hole into the BK for a brass ground screw or by other means?
Everyone: Any wiring diagrams you might have to post would be very helpful. Specifically one that incorporates the kill switch.
POL: How did you connect the ground wire to the BK? Drill a hole into the BK for a brass ground screw or by other means?
Everyone: Any wiring diagrams you might have to post would be very helpful. Specifically one that incorporates the kill switch.
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
I had a hole in the BK, that used a 1/4-20 SS screw and wing nut. (for easy removal)
You could also ground your element, since it will be grounded to the kettle anyway.
There are a few ways.
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
I have never drawn a schematic or diagram for anything I have built. I have seen VERY few ever posted here and dont know where to find those very few. Sorry.
Ranger9913
Well-Known Member
I'm wiring my system up as parts come in. I am incorporating the same switch which will be last in line before the element.
1. I am housing my burner in a dual gang metal box which grounds me to keg. From here the main wires will attach to my ground screw and element inside my metal box this will give me my main ground going back to my 60A GFI.
2. You need a DPDT switch rated for 30A 220v, it needs to be an on-off-on maintained. One side of the ON will be AUTO and connected to the relay. The OFF will kill power, and the other ON will be a manual ON that draws power from a main power source. So if you were to switch it to ON there it would bypass the SSR + PID combo and would be in manual mode.
I am using a distribution block 1 to 6. Pol is using one also to feed his various devices.
check out www.theelectricbrewery.com
1. I am housing my burner in a dual gang metal box which grounds me to keg. From here the main wires will attach to my ground screw and element inside my metal box this will give me my main ground going back to my 60A GFI.
2. You need a DPDT switch rated for 30A 220v, it needs to be an on-off-on maintained. One side of the ON will be AUTO and connected to the relay. The OFF will kill power, and the other ON will be a manual ON that draws power from a main power source. So if you were to switch it to ON there it would bypass the SSR + PID combo and would be in manual mode.
I am using a distribution block 1 to 6. Pol is using one also to feed his various devices.
check out www.theelectricbrewery.com
kcwcc
Active Member
some points, not necessarily specific to your question:
Check the specs of your SSR? Does it have an integral heat sink? 25A generates a lot of heat. Some of the cheapo chinese SSRs you get on eBay don't actually work to the value specified either...be wary of that.
An E-Stop should be placed on the hot feed line as close (electrically) to the source as possible.
The GFI should trip in the case of a water issue....make sure you test it often...for it to work it requires a continuous connection to earth ground...that means running either a dedicated power cable good for > 30A to your fuse panel from your local GFI or using a GFI breaker in the box itself (a much better idea) and still running a heavy power cable to your rig.
Don't overlook current carrying capacity in your cable....for instance, 10AWG over 50' at 25C will handle 32A but 14AWG will only handle 17A over the same run. Bigger is better....the lower the number the heavier the gauge. Also note that wire bundles will handle slightly less current than single cables....always err on the side of caution. Also, try to avoid wire nuts.
Check the specs of your SSR? Does it have an integral heat sink? 25A generates a lot of heat. Some of the cheapo chinese SSRs you get on eBay don't actually work to the value specified either...be wary of that.
An E-Stop should be placed on the hot feed line as close (electrically) to the source as possible.
The GFI should trip in the case of a water issue....make sure you test it often...for it to work it requires a continuous connection to earth ground...that means running either a dedicated power cable good for > 30A to your fuse panel from your local GFI or using a GFI breaker in the box itself (a much better idea) and still running a heavy power cable to your rig.
Don't overlook current carrying capacity in your cable....for instance, 10AWG over 50' at 25C will handle 32A but 14AWG will only handle 17A over the same run. Bigger is better....the lower the number the heavier the gauge. Also note that wire bundles will handle slightly less current than single cables....always err on the side of caution. Also, try to avoid wire nuts.
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
There are a few drawings in the primer listed in my sig. Ohio-Ed has a real nice set of drawings in his electrical question thread. His uses a BCS for control but you'll get the idea.
The Estop circuit is in the primer and is recommended. The easiest way to disable the element is to put a 2 position switch inline between the PID control line and the SSR.
The Estop circuit is in the primer and is recommended. The easiest way to disable the element is to put a 2 position switch inline between the PID control line and the SSR.
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
I have never seen an SSR that has an integral heat sink. Some here have recommended that if you are sending more than 5A across an SSR, you need to have a heat sink... that is a good idea.
Also, it has been recommended that you size your SSR at least 2x the size you NEED. I use 40A SSRs on everything, they cost like $1 more than the 25A version.
Also, it has been recommended that you size your SSR at least 2x the size you NEED. I use 40A SSRs on everything, they cost like $1 more than the 25A version.
+1,
i only have a 30amp outle, but have wired everything for 50 amp service. the intent is to have a 50 amp outlet later, this way i only have to build once.
kcwcc
Active Member
Crydom makes high current SSRs that do not require a separate heat sink to run at 40A.
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
Cool........ just never seen one. Neato
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
Automation direct has them too. Here's what I am using.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ys_-z-_Timers/Solid-State_Relays/AD-SSR225-DC
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ys_-z-_Timers/Solid-State_Relays/AD-SSR225-DC
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
Is there a benefit to having it an integrated part of the SSR? Or is it just more to throw away and purchase if the SSR smokes?
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
I liked them because it was din rail mountable. Don't know if there is a significant benefit beyond that.
An SSR with an integral heat sink is called a Solid State Contactor, SSC. I have two 40 A ones I will soon (finally) be putting together for my long delayed e-Brewery build. They are designed for controlling heating elements, etc. Check them out on Wikipedia for one quick source of info. Got mine off eBay, made by Power-IO. DIN rail mountable as said above.
The Pol
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 11,390
- Reaction score
- 117
What is the difference, if any, between the workings of an SSR and an SSC? Relay vs Contactor?
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
The current capacity is what makes it a contactor, not the heat sink. When you get to those levels of current though there is no forgiveness when it comes to heat dissipation, which is why they come with the heat sink built in.
That Power IO is a good lookin unit.
kcwcc
Active Member
I have always used a MOC3032 driver and a properly heat-sinked triac with a snubber for switching 120 and 240...been using that circuit for YEARS to turn on well pumps for a cistern recovery system I build. I actually only started using SSRs for < 40A when I found decent models cheap from China.
nelstrodomus
Member
Assuming your PID is bring powered by 120 VAC, why not just use a toggle switch on the PID, which in turn cuts off the juice to the element?
willynilly
Well-Known Member
Well, that depends, how many SSRs are you driving with that PID? Or is it driving an SSRD?
IF the PID is running one SSR, then you are only cutting power to ONE hot leg of the (quite possibly) two that you have running to the element. So placing a toggle to turn off the PID to turn off the element MAY in fact leave you with one hot leg, which is not as desirable.
This is why DPST swithes have been placed on the HOTS running to the elements or people use SSRDs or (2) SSRs to allow the PID to control all of the current to the element, not just one leg.
jkarp
Well-Known Member
Cutting power to the PID, or even using a low-voltage switch on the control signal to the SSR(s) are sub-optimal ways to kill power to elements because SSRs normally fail closed. In other words, when an SSR dies, it normally continues to pass current, ignoring the input signal.
willynilly
Well-Known Member
They still have heatsinks on them, but IMHO any heatsink INSIDE a box needs a fan to help cool the box, as you arent really getting rid of the heat otherwise.
I have a 105CFM fan on "The Brain", and some shielded intake ports.
willynilly
Well-Known Member
Yes, there are (5) 1.375" ports in the underside of the box that are shielded so that that water will not get sucked in (drips). Without intakes, the fan is useless. Since the fan is on the side, I decided to have it SUCK out the air, as I didnt want it to blow water drips and such IN to the box. The intake ports are safe from gravity and drips. The velocity of flow through the ports is amazing, this is a 230VAC fan, .09A
There are 10 SSRs in this box, 8 heatsinks, couple outlets, ground bar, 3 line - 18 load distribution block, along with a BCS460 and a Wireless Router (see antenna), so I need to keep things coooool in there.
It is basically a modular, self contained, power distribution box with web based control. Bolt it to a stand, wire your hots, neutrals and grounds(from your pumps and elements) to the appropriate terminals, log into the BCS, and you can control any electric rig with it from your PC. 50A max load.
Plug and play in one simple box.
willynilly
Well-Known Member
I went to the fan mfg. website, they had a template PDF there for the cutout and bolt locations. So there is a full size hole where the fan is, yes.
The intakes are homemade, they are just holes on the underside that are shielded from anything that drops from above, due to gravity. Nothing can get sucked into them, other than air.
When looking for fans... I was originally looking at 65CFM fans and such, after firing this thing up, I don't think I would personally go that small. 100CFM is great though, if you are going to spend the time and $$ anyway, get a high flow fan, make your work count for something. This one is also very quiet (40 decibels)
This one is a Muffin XL
