I'm not getting much sleep due to my screaming kid...

Not really, of course, but if her current course of behavior continues, I don't know what I'll do.

She has suddenly developed an aversion to sleeping. If she were three months old and constantly waking up in the middle of the night, I'd be sympathetic. However, she's almost four. In the last 10 days, she wakes up and screams for mommy to rub her back, that she's afraid of the A/C, that she wants to be closer to her sister (who is 5 feet across the room), that she wants to sleep in our bed (huge no-no), whatever. She screams for hours on end after sleeping fine for years. As recently as three weeks ago, we had to wake her sorry a$$ up in the morning.

We have tried the anger thing, the consoling thing, the ignoring thing. At 12:25 this morning she woke up, at 3:30 a.m. she was still screaming, standing in the doorway to our room. Soon after, she was asleep on our floor. Absolutely pathetic. Yet, I have no sympathy.

She had her bike taken away for 1 week. No effect. No field trips at daycare. No effect. She seems not to care that the other three people in the house are walking zombies.

Worst part: in a few weeks we go to Maine for a week. The cottages are so close together that everybody will hear her screaming. Which, in turn, will force us to leave and basically piss away $1,200.

I have no answers. Just needed to vent on that one.

Whiskey. For you and her!

My parents allways told me I was like that when I was younger. Luckily it wasint in the middle of the night, I just refused to eat ceareal unless my mom made it, hated getting my diaper changed by anyone but my baby sitter stupid things like that. I think I just grew out of it in my early years giving way to my philosophy that "Every person has bad in them, some more than others. Most "use up" their badness in their teenage years. Some use it up in adulthood and some use it up in early child hood." What I am trying to say is your kid is going through her "bad" phase now so when she is in her teens or is an adult she will have lost most of her "badness" and will be a more mature and sociable person because of it. Try and think of it as a blessing See me in 14 years and tell me how my theory holds up.

Damn, I feel your pain Shecky. We went through some trouble when our oldest (now 7) was around 3, she would wake up scream because she wanted to sleep in our bed. We had to ride it out with a few nights of screaming but those few nights were horrible. Sleep deprivation can really mess you up, combine that with a screaming kid and you have pure hell.


My youngest is now 4 and she is currently scared of rain and thunder. If it rains or thunders she will scream bloody murder and can't sleep.

Not sure what the answer is but I really hope it gets worked out.

Horse tranquilizers, they work wonders. If you can't get your hands on those benadryl works well too.

We have been riding this out by just letting her scream most of the time. It ain't working. Very frustrating.

My older one went through a phase when she was 2 1/2 where she would throw 4-hour temper tantrums every day for two weeks. It was brutal, but at least it was during the day. That I can handle.

We've been spoiled with both our kids in that they have, up until now, slept through the night since they were 2-3 months old.

I know this is a phase, but it's awful. It's no longer an option (snip-snip), but if we even had thoughts of having a third they're gone now because we have been re-introduced to the wonders of severe sleep deprivation.

One of the problems is my wife, who is generally a saint. But when she yells, holy crap. You can hear her across New England (she's a singer, so she projects well). And when she's really tired, she doesn't get cranky, she gets emotional.

Donasay said:

Horse tranquilizers, they work wonders. If you can't get your hands on those benadryl works well too.

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We have, against our better judgement, tried Tylenol and Benadryl. She's freakin' immune. It's like we're living with a crackhead.

How about some quality earplugs? I know that doesn't help your situation in Maine, but as far as your own sleep deprivation issues go, wouldn't some industrial earplugs drown her screaming out, and hopefully she'll get over it after a few more weeks?

Is she having night terrors?

Super extreme real seaming nightmares?

Reverend JC said:

Is she having night terrors?

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I thought the same thing when I read your post, shecky.

I feel for ya. Mine are 4-1/2 and 2-1/2. I'd give the pediatrician a call, see if he/she can offer any insight.

i'm reading this and i'm wondering if it's something in the air? my 18 month old is going through the same phase and my wife and I are trying everything to no avail... we're extremely worried since our next is due in 7 weeks, I'm not sure if we'll get any sleep with a newborn added into the mix.

like you, we've been spoiled with our duaghter since she has slept through the night with no problems ever since we brought her home until now.

if you find a cure let me know and vise versa.

Try some Rescue Remedy. It's a calming agent made from flower oils. It's sold in many healthfood and pet stores. All Natural (in case someone asks). I purchased it for one of my greyhounds, but based on a mishap with the eyedropper, I can say it works for me.

BraeHaus said:

i'm reading this and i'm wondering if it's something in the air? my 18 month old is going through the same phase and my wife and I are trying everything to no avail... we're extremely worried since our next is due in 7 weeks, I'm not sure if we'll get any sleep with a newborn added into the mix.

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They're different things. With young kids (under 2), night terrors coincide with developmental progress, ie. when they're getting ready to hit a milestone, like walking/talking. Then there's things like teething to really throw off the mark.

But shecky's is 4.

And no, with one just under two and a newborn, you won't be getting any sleep whatsoever.

FireBrewer said:

They're different things. With young kids (under 2), night terrors coincide with developmental progress, ie. when they're getting ready to hit a milestone, like walking/talking. Then there's things like teething to really throw off the mark.

But shecky's is 4.

And no, with one just under two and a newborn, you won't be getting any sleep whatsoever.

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well she's been walking since she was 8 months old and we think it's her teething that's really adding to it, but up until now she has been a saint, so we're just really spoiled and getting brought back to reality.



and yeah, i don't expect much sleep in the next 4 or 5 years

BraeHaus said:

well she's been walking since she was 8 months old and we think it's her teething that's really adding to it, but up until now she has been a saint, so we're just really spoiled and getting brought back to reality.

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Just when you think you have 'em figured out, they change it up on ya. My youngest is getting his molars in now...man is he grumpy!

We thought of night terrors, but that doesn't appear to be it. She doesn't wake up with this look of fright. She just wakes up and says she isn't tired. Yeah, right.

We're clueless at this point. Maybe it's karma. Neither of them had an issue sleeping through the night fairly quickly and teething with both was so mild as to be irrelevant.

The only thing we can figure is this: her sister just finished kindergarten. That added a new dynamic to things. I'm home in the mornings before work and it was just Paige and I for the school year. Suddenly Maddie is added to the mix. Maybe she's had trouble getting used to that, though she and her sister are best buds.

Hopefully it will work itself out. Soon or we will all lose our minds.

Have time for long afternoon walks? Maybe help wear her out?

Why not just let her sleep in your bed?

When we moved to our new house, my daughter (6yr old at the time) refused to sleep in her room. It took several weeks before she finally capitulated. Basically, we locked our bedroom door and let her figure it out. No one got any sleep, but it resolved itself.

It's weird.... You tell my son to go to sleep and he'll be asleep any where and under any conditions in about 5mins flat.

RodfatherX said:

Why not just let her sleep in your bed?

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Then she will get used to that and it will be a whole new fight.

TxBrew said:

Then she will get used to that and it will be a whole new fight.

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+1. I dealt with that with both of my youngest daughters and it took a long time to break. To the OP, it's going to be difficult to get through your situation, but you'll just have to be persistant in returning her to bed every time she gets up. Getting angry with her, or trying to take things away (from a 4 yr old) are not going to have the desired effect. Again, try to be patient and consistent (I know it's hard) and you should have success getting her back to normal sleep.

Yeah, a friend of my wife's got her 3 year old still sleeping in their bed because they started it when the kid was born. Screw that.

I look at the middle of the night as just another time where a kid will be disceplined for innapropriate behavior. As tired-ass parents though, it's hard to deal with. What if the kid was screaming for something in the middle of the day? How do you handle it?

We go with naughty corner first. If it continues, we take the currently favorite toy away or any planned trips she was looking forward to. If she escalates, so do we. I'd try to do the same thing in the middle of the night.

TxBrew said:

Then she will get used to that and it will be a whole new fight.

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I disagree .... we let our kids (Amanda 4, Dakota 3) sleep in our bed only if they promised that they would sleep in their bed the following night. 9 times out of 10 the following night was ok. If it didnt go well and they threw a tantrum ... they got a time out or a pop on the butt. I will not put up with excess crying/tantrum. Lately we said no to our bed and yes to the couch. It doesnt happen very often but they know our bed is off limits.

I think for us what works is the counting to three thing. Before we started it .. our kids would cry and throw tantrums. In the begining .. if I got to 3 .. they would get a time out on the couch with the TV off (or with the history channel on)... they thought that was the end of the world ... and if they continued to cry they got more time. If the time out wasnt working .. we would give them a pop on the butt and then a time out. After the time out we always sit them down and explain that we love them and that their behavior is not acceptable. We never caved in and it took them time to understand that this was the repercussions of acting out of line. I swear to god after a short time of them getting use to the process ... I havent made it to 3 in like a year and a half.

RodfatherX said:

Why not just let her sleep in your bed?

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Never, ever, ever. We decided this when we had kids and it has worked well. If she gets that one time, she has won and wrested control from the people who are supposed to have it.

Two examples why we don't do this: my neighbor and his wife allow it. Their daughter is 7 and still sleeps with them more than just once a week. My wife and I want our privacy. If we didn't have it, the kids wouldn't be here.

No. 2: Friends of ours adopted their one and only child when she was a baby and they were in their mid-40s. Kid never slept in her own bed. They have money coming out their you know whats, a huge house and there is no child's bedroom in the place.

Our deal is this: We have our bed, the dog has his bed and the girls each has her own bed. It's for sleeping in.

BTW, thanks for the responses. We have tried all solutions and then some, including, as someone wondered, about tiring her out. That's not an issue. The kid is non-stop go when she's awake.

Wish I had some at times for my boys.

Hope you find a solution soon. Sleep deprivation is a *****!

TxBrew said:

Then she will get used to that and it will be a whole new fight.

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Perhaps, perhaps not! There is no certainty that it isn't just a phase that she's going through and will come out of. But, co-sleeping can easily become a slippery slope.

The sleep deprivation is one thing. I can deal with that. My job dictates that I operate on almost no sleep for eight months of the year. I'm accustomed to that.

The problem is that she screams "I want" this or that for a long, long time. Very selfish. I want a million bucks, but she ain't about to give that to me. She wants mommy to rub her back. Mommy does it once and then she wants some more. That's not the way it works.

My wife has argued that she doesn't understand any of this. I disagree to an extent. She knows exactly what she's doing. Maybe the doesn't quite get the repurcussions of it, but she's not dumb. Maybe that's the problem. She's figured out how to push the buttons and will keep pushing them until something explodes.

Like, say, my head.

shecky said:

The sleep deprivation is one thing. I can deal with that. My job dictates that I operate on almost no sleep for eight months of the year. I'm accustomed to that.

The problem is that she screams "I want" this or that for a long, long time. Very selfish. I want a million bucks, but she ain't about to give that to me. She wants mommy to rub her back. Mommy does it once and then she wants some more. That's not the way it works.

My wife has argued that she doesn't understand any of this. I disagree to an extent. She knows exactly what she's doing. Maybe the doesn't quite get the repurcussions of it, but she's not dumb. Maybe that's the problem. She's figured out how to push the buttons and will keep pushing them until something explodes.

Like, say, my head.

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Have you tried not giving in at all to her demands? Thats what we did and after a few nights when she realized she wasn't going to get what she wanted (to sleep with us) she just quit and started sleeping through the night. Now granted she did everything she could from screaming "I'm hurt, I need help" to Knocking on the door (we locked her ass in the room), to screaming at the top of her lungs for hours on end. The key is you can go in once to check on them but then thats it, no more trips to the room, no back rubs, nothing.

It gets ugly as hell but I worked for us.

Isn't that what Old Grandad is for?

shecky said:

The sleep deprivation is one thing. I can deal with that. My job dictates that I operate on almost no sleep for eight months of the year. I'm accustomed to that.

The problem is that she screams "I want" this or that for a long, long time. Very selfish. I want a million bucks, but she ain't about to give that to me. She wants mommy to rub her back. Mommy does it once and then she wants some more. That's not the way it works.

My wife has argued that she doesn't understand any of this. I disagree to an extent. She knows exactly what she's doing. Maybe the doesn't quite get the repurcussions of it, but she's not dumb. Maybe that's the problem. She's figured out how to push the buttons and will keep pushing them until something explodes.

Like, say, my head.

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And what about my suggestion? Earplugs, baby!

Is, uh... any of this going on as well?

[youtube]TF-Ry-Wm-MM[/youtube]

Maybe the new night crying is another manifestation of an already existing problem...?

I didn't see that episode of Super Nanny and I don't have any idea how to solve it either, but I'm sure they wouldn't have aired that episode if she didn't effect at least some improvement. There must be ways to get a hold of a DVD or something.

Please don't take offense, I'm just offering another way of looking at the situation you described.

Thalon said:

Is, uh... any of this going on as well?

[youtube]TF-Ry-Wm-MM[/youtube]

Maybe the new night crying is another manifestation of an already existing problem...?

I didn't see that episode of Super Nanny and I don't have any idea how to solve it either, but I'm sure they wouldn't have aired that episode if she didn't effect at least some improvement. There must be ways to get a hold of a DVD or something.

Please don't take offense, I'm just offering another way of looking at the situation you described.

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Believe me, no offense taken at any suggestions. Fortunately, neither of my children is anywhere near the terrors as those kids in the video. I may have painted a bad picture. My girls are great 99 percent of the time. Even the sleepless wonder is as sweet and fun as can be during waking hours.

Yup, we've tried ignoring her. We don't give in to demands, haven't since the after the first couple of nights when we realized this was some sort of power play. Hasn't worked yet. May be that she's just stubborn as hell. Sweet, cute as all get out, funny, but stubborn.

Time for a trip to the pediatrician. THis might very well be a medical problem. They may choose to run some bloodwork, check her urine for infection, that kind of thing. It probably isn't medical so much as behavioral, but it's certainly worth checking out. This happened like throwing a switch, so that may mean something beyond the usual is going on. You'd kick yourself to no end if you let it go on, only to find out later her little thyroid is outta whack or something.

Meanwhile, a tiny dose of Melatonin might help. I wouldn't do it for more than a few nights, but might help you make it through until you can see your doctor.

Pediatrician will be called in the A.M.

Update, if you care. She decided early tonight to do her little dance. At bedtime tonight. She refused to lay down. So we said goodnight, went downstairs and heard her walking down the hall. She laid down at the top of the stairs. From there, she moved hither and dither, who knows where. My wife went to bed a while ago. I have no idea where the child is. Hopefully in her room. I'll see soon.

As a side note, it's hot as hell tonight (at least for Connecticut) but she's terrified of the air conditioner unit in her room. Ooooh, comfy.

hmm, sounds like you need to lock her in that room.

stever said:

hmm, sounds like you need to lock her in that room.

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Would love to, though her sister in the same room might not appreciate the screaming. That and the door locks from the inside. All it needs is a turn from her to open it. If this continues, I may change out the doorknob.

Give her some nyquil....it will knock her out! But going into freak out mode works too. If she knows u will go crazy if she wakes u up then she will be to scared to wake daddy and mommy up. The next time she does this just go absolutly nuts and be on the verge of popping a blood vessle in ur head. Scare her ass ****less and u got problem solved! An kids know that daddy and mommy will always love them so dont worry about her feeling unloved for a night.

Stick some hops in her pillow!

I know I'm going to get flack for this but.... have you considered just yelling at her? When she's screaming in your doorway and misbehaving, she needs to know who is boss. It sounds like you've done everything the 'nice' way, not caving to her demands, trying to ignore it, it's just not working. fat x nub has the right idea, I think outright yelling at her GO TO BED!!! will get it through her head that she needs to go to sleep. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Tell her if she doesn't go to bed then you will get angry. And when she starts acting up again, get angry!


Alternately, have you thought using about the advice in stever's sig?

EvilTOJ said:

I know I'm going to get flack for this but.... have you considered just yelling at her? When she's screaming in your doorway and misbehaving, she needs to know who is boss. It sounds like you've done everything the 'nice' way, not caving to her demands, trying to ignore it, it's just not working. fat x nub has the right idea, I think outright yelling at her GO TO BED!!! will get it through her head that she needs to go to sleep. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Tell her if she doesn't go to bed then you will get angry. And when she starts acting up again, get angry!


Alternately, have you thought using about the advice in your sig?

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i remember when my mom went into physco freak out mode i NEVER did it again. when i was little she would wip out the spatual and beat my ass....when i became older it stopped working cuz it didnt hurt anymore...but when i was around 13 and she went into freak out mode i was scared enough to not do it again. my mom is very loving so i knew she would always love me but to be honest i was a bit scared for my life. seems like me and eviltoj have the right idea.