"Alt" idea

I have had this idea for some time (like ten years), but now I’m actually thinking of giving it a shot once cold weather sets in… It’s a very simple recipe, very simple concept.
60% Munich Malt
40% Vienna Malt
O.G. of around 1.050
Mash at say 156 degrees. Do a single decoction with a 20-min. boil to get to mash-out.
Hop to about 50+ IBU with Spalt hops …. (or maybe Styrian Goldings, I can’t make up my mind…), with a generous amount (say an ounce and a quarter or more, for a 5-gal. batch) at flame out.
90-min. Boil
S-05 Ale yeast
Ferment on the cool side…
I guess what I am after is a rich intense underlying malty profile with a strong hop presence. Kind of a “German Bitter” (a “GSB”??). I’m after a lot of body, but light enough for a session beer. What the heck style would this fall under?? The late addition hops kick it out of just about anything I can think of. Technically I guess it would be an AltBier, but it sure don’t fit the guidelines…. Not that it matters much to me.
Has anyone else tried something like this? What do you think?

Sounds like a nice hoppy German ale.

I was talking to a new brewer today and described something very similiar to this. He liked my vienna lager so I described a german ale based on the recipe.

I'm seriously considering doing a smash brew with light munich and saaz

If you can get K-97 dry yeast you will be rewarded with a truer German Ale, and I would go with the Spalt

Sounds interesting. I would reduce the mash temperature by at least 5F.

Ok. I will follow (to a point) the much appreciated advice.
K-97 yeast it is.
I'll drop the mash temp down to 151 deg. (Will make it a little more per style, a little less body than I would like, but should still have that intense malt background)
Spalt hops it is. I was thinking of throwing in an ounce of Perle for bittering (60-min. boil only), and the Spalt for the late addition... would enough of the aroma and flavor of the Perle boil off??? The Spalt has such a low AA it would take 3-times as much...
I think I am going to bump this up to my next on deck, as soon as my Brown Porter gets out of the way and frees up my Primary.
Thank you all so much!

Sounds good

Actually, that pretty much meets the style guidelines of an Alt, though it may be a little dark. My Alt is around 70% Munich and 25% Pils, so really all you're doing is subbing in the Vienna for the Pils (though I also use around 5% CaraMunich, so the Vienna minus the CaraMunich may be a wash). 50 IBU's is on the high side for an Alt, but that's actually consistent with Uerige on tap. Personally, I'd only drop the mash temp down to 154; I like a little more body with an Alt that bitter, so my last batch I upped the sacc rest from 152 to 154 with favorable results. Oh, and you can use Perle for bittering no problem.

Sweet! thank you. I'm thirsty already...
I calculated everything out (again) this morning, and with the 1-oz of Perle at 60-min. and an oz and a quarter of Spalt at 5-min. it ends up at around 45 IBU... Ingrediants will be on the way this evening!

I just finished an Alt with roughly 50%Munich and 50%2 Row. I added around 3/4lb crystal 40. After looking at a bunch of different recipes, it looks like I was generous on the Munich. I shot for about 35ibus using Spalt and I think I should have gone for more. The finished product seems well balanced but I personally would have preferred more bitterness. I used the 05 yeast and fermented about 60F for 10 days and racked to secondary to finish at 40F for a couple of weeks. It's kegged now and taste great, if not a bit malty.

If you're doing the single decoction to mash out strictly for the temperature increase, then that is fine. However, a mash out decoction does not have the benefits of other decoctions because they are thin with very little grain.

In other words, a single decoction is typically done from a protein-related range (with most base malts today... as high as the low to mid 140s°F) to the saccharification/dextrinization range (158°F) to get the benefits of doing a decoction.

The recipe sounds delicious, but it's a lot closer to a hoppy Ofest than an alt.

Windigstadt said:

Actually, that pretty much meets the style guidelines of an Alt, though it may be a little dark. My Alt is around 70% Munich and 25% Pils, so really all you're doing is subbing in the Vienna for the Pils (though I also use around 5% CaraMunich, so the Vienna minus the CaraMunich may be a wash).

Click to expand...

On second thought, I was out to lunch as far as the color is concerned. It would actually be borderline too light (11.5 SRM according to my calc, with the low end for a Düsseldorf Alt being 11). I still don't think it would be that far off from a traditional Alt as far as the grain bill is concerned (Schumacher, if I recall correctly, is just Munich and Pils; no crystal malts whatsoever). Too bad you're out in West Virginia... I'd love to taste how the final product turns out!

I calculated everything out (again) with the ingrediants as I am going to order...
6.5 lbs Munich Malt
4 lbs Vienna Malt
1-oz Perle 60-min.
0.5-oz Spalt 60-min.
1.25-oz Spalt at flame out

O.G. 1.050
IBU 49.6
color 16.4 SRM (a bit darker than you came up with Windigstadt...)

The single decoction to mash out is intended more for me to just get used to the calculations and the procedure than anything, I've been brewing mostly English beer styles for the last 20-years or so, and have only used single infusion mashes... I figure this will ease me into it with the least time consuming decoction schedule.

Chicago isn't that far away..... do you ever have a good excuse to go to D.C.? I work in Leesburg, VA.

Question for those who mention using Munich; what L rating was your Munich?

I'm in the middle of an Alt, 87.6% 10L Munich, 11.7% Melanoidan 20L, .7% Carafa ~ 400L (2 oz in 10 galan batch). All Spalt hops, ~ 49 IBU. I just racked to secondary, and started lagering. Color appears to be spot on, but seems a tad bitter, even for Uerige tap. Perhaps 30 days ~ 35 degrees will mellow the hops. Even if the hops don't mellow a little, it tasted pretty good; after tasting I almost bypassed lagering,,,,,, at least one keg

Thanks,

Moe

Moe said:

I'm in the middle of an Alt, 87.6% 10L Munich, 11.7% Melanoidan 20L, .7% Carafa ~ 400L (2 oz in 10 galan batch). All Spalt hops, ~ 49 IBU. I just racked to secondary, and started lagering. Color appears to be spot on, but seems a tad bitter, even for Uerige tap. Perhaps 30 days ~ 35 degrees will mellow the hops. Even if the hops don't mellow a little, it tasted pretty good; after tasting I almost bypassed lagering,,,,,, at least one keg

Thanks,

Moe

Click to expand...

The bitterness will likely mellow. A lot can happen between secondary and drinking in the flavor of a beer... almost always in a good way.

I'd move the flamout addition to 20 min. - if you want to be true-to-style. None of the Alts I had in Germany this summer really had any hop aroma, and most had just bittering with little hop flavor, except my favorite (Schumaker) which had a nice smooth hop bitterness that made me wonder if they first wort hopped.

My favorite alt is Zum Uerige, which is very different from what homebrewers think of as an alt. Here's a recipe from the brewmaster there and a discussion....

http://hbd.org/discus/messages/40327/42592.html

Denny said:

My favorite alt is Zum Uerige, which is very different from what homebrewers think of as an alt. Here's a recipe from the brewmaster there and a discussion....

http://hbd.org/discus/messages/40327/42592.html

Click to expand...

Hi Denny,

Thanks for the link. My favorite is Uerige as well; followed by Fuchsen. I know, two pretty different Alts, but hey, I like both New York and Chicago style pizza. I'd have to say my least favorites are Frankenheim and Diebels.

-Moe

I agree with ya on the Frankenheim and Diebels!

Update time!
I impressed the crap out of myself on this one…. (good thing too, I’m already disappointed in the Old Ale “experiment” I have in Primary now….)
My final recipe was as follows:
“Boar Tusk Alt”
6.5-pounds Munich Malt (7L)
4-pounds Vienna Malt
1-oz. Carafa III (de-husked)
1-oz Perle Hops pellets (8.2% AA) 60-min.
0.5 oz Spalt Hops pellets (2.6% AA) 60-min.
1.5 oz Spalt Hops pellets (2.6% AA) 5-min.
Mash Schedule:
10.56-pounds grain @ +/- 68 deg.
Assume 1.325 quarts/pound mash thickness
Strike with 3.5-gal @ 170 deg. Target 153 deg.
Mash for between 45-min. and 1-hour
Pull 1-gal.- 4-cup decoction.
Boil 20-min., return to mash and rest for 15-min., drain.
Batch sparge (twice) with 3-gal @ 170 deg. With 15 min. rest each.
All water used was my high carbonate (limestone) local water, with no treatment.
90-min. Boil.
K-97 yeast.
O.G. 1.054 (measured)
F.G 1.014 (measured)
IBU : 50 (calculated)
SRM: 14.8 (calculated)
I was not real fond of the K-97 at first, it took a while to get started, was never what I would call “vigorous”, and took a lot of “nurse-maiding” (I had to rouse it every few days). It is horrible at flocculating. It fermented in the low to mid 60’s for 6-weeks in primary. I was amazed however, at how sparklingly clear this turned out… one of the clearest I have ever brewed, go figure. This turned out wonderful! I didn’t overdo the “off style” late hop additions, and it is (to me at least) very well balanced. It is light enough to be a session beer, but has sooooo much flavor that one will satisfy. I really like the Spalt hops by the way, and I am not a real fan of Noble type hops in general. The color is a beautiful copper with ruby highlights, good head retention. The rich malty flavor stands up well to the hops.
I gave a couple to a co-worker of mine (whose favorite style is Marzen) and he said that it was “spectacular, I could see this as an offering in any local pub, good work my friend! You really ought to think about entering this in a competition.”
Well, I would but I don’t think it is “different” enough to enter as a “Specialty” Beer, and it is too “off-style” with the late addition hops to do well in the Dusseldorf Alt category… any thoughts on this?????
I will most definitely brew this again, with no revisions!

This thread has got me interested in brewing an Alt.....the alts Ive tried have all been somewhat off-style american versions.....This sounds like a good recipe for something a bit more traditional.

Reading over the style guidelines again this actually turned out somewhat more traditional than was originally intended. If the late addition hops were put in at 15 or 20 min. or so, (with the amount cut back to account for the increase in utilization) it would be almost spot on. As is, it is awesome. If I could maintain the cool temps all year I would be tempted have a batch of this going all the time. The K-97 is a real PITA, but the results are well worth it. I’ll brew again (hopefully soon, before it starts getting warm) to make sure it wasn’t a fluke, and if not, I’ll put it in the database. Not too shabby for a recipe that the final version was formulated by hand sitting in a restaurant waiting for my dinner!.... (I barely saved the napkin I had the calculations scribbled on from being tossed in the trash by SWMBO… “why do you have a napkin in your jacket pocket? Some girls phone number????&#8221.