Carbonation for champagne like cider

Every year I make apple cider with my friends. This year, a friend of mine asked me to make sparkling cider for the toast at her wedding. I've made sparkling cider before, I usually bottle condition it similarly to beer, 3/4 c sugar per 6 gals, however since it is for a toast, I want to make this one slightly more bubbly, and champagne like.

Usually if I over-carbonate a beer (or cider), when I open a bottle, it is all bubbles, and then completely flat. This is my greatest fear about this. How much sugar should I add such that it has that delightful champagne bubbliness, but not too much. Here's the specs;

OG: 1.095
FG: 1.010
Yeast: Nottingham Ale

Does anyone have experience with this?

Seeing as with champagne you're looking at somewhere between 6-7 volumes CO2 and normal beer bottles won't hold nearly that much pressure I'd be careful with this. 3/4 cup sugar is probably getting you around 2.5 volumes, if you've got thick bottles maybe you can get to 4 volumes safely?

Normally, if you bottle in champagne bottles at 1.010 you'll get what you're looking for. However, you may have already reached the alcohol tolerance of Nottingham - if it won't go any further you're screwed.

I have some recent batches around 10 g/L priming sugar (sucrose), which I believe is just under 3 volumes. Those are pretty bubble, though not champagne levels. They don't foam up at all when opened but the bubbles keep coming in the glass for many minutes. I do add about 10 g/L maltodextrin which adds mouthfeel but may have an impact on how long the cider holds the carbonation also. Not sure on that.

To ensure proper carbonation make sure you allow ample time for conditioning. Mine seem to take several weeks, perhaps a month, to reach full carbonation even at room temperature.

If you have any doubt I would recommend making a small (or large if you prefer!) sample batch using different amounts of priming sugar in marked bottles. Wait a good while then sample each and decide which turned out best.

When your cider is fully carbonated, and some may disagree, can you refrigerate for 5 days? Your chances of having a small bubble beverage that stays bubbly in the glass, can be done with time in the cold. You will need days not hours, but some may disagree...

if your current cider is good, go with what works, most people wont be able to tell the difference.

Maylar said:

Normally, if you bottle in champagne bottles at 1.010 you'll get what you're looking for. However, you may have already reached the alcohol tolerance of Nottingham - if it won't go any further you're screwed.

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Not sure that anyone is screwed even if Nottingham has given up the ghost. One thing to try is to prime with both sugar and a different yeast. You might try EC-1118 but I would start that yeast in a tiny batch of fresh cider and allow it to get close to the ABV of your cider so that you are not asking newly awakened yeast to thrive in a high alcohol environment. EC -1118 will probably cost you $2.00 (good for about 6 gallons)
An alternative method is to inoculate your cider with yeast designed as priming yeast - its encapsulated yeast and costs about $40 a pack
http://www.scottlab.com/product-98.aspx. The idea here is that you drop the capsules into each bottle together with the sugar. I had asked about this technique a few months ago and Pumpkinman pointed to post with full instructions. Haven't tried this - yet - as the wine I wanted this for (elderflower) is still aging...

I have some very bubbly pear cider that most people think is a champagne. I put it in plastic tonic bottles and primed with the pear juice and some more frozen apple juice concentrate. It is so carbonated I am pouring one glass then shake up the bottle to get some of the bubbles out. It is violently carbonated.

acemannw, you do not mention when you brewed your cider, the actual volume of the Added juices, and whether or not you cold crashed your cider before serving. Fill us in, will you please?

I am using high quality, punted champagne bottles.

Maylar said:

Normally, if you bottle in champagne bottles at 1.010 you'll get what you're looking for. However, you may have already reached the alcohol tolerance of Nottingham - if it won't go any further you're screwed.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and I'm worried about this. I've pushed this yeast up to 14%, but the OG of that cider was 1.125, and it finished at 1.040.

This cider is pretty clear. I can almost see to the bottom of the bucket. I'm worried that yeast might be pretty much done, and 1 c of sugar won't make a difference. What do you say to pitching a pack of EC1118, waiting a couple weeks, and then priming and bottling?

jsiddall said:

I have some recent batches around 10 g/L priming sugar (sucrose), which I believe is just under 3 volumes. Those are pretty bubble, though not champagne levels. They don't foam up at all when opened but the bubbles keep coming in the glass for many minutes. I do add about 10 g/L maltodextrin which adds mouthfeel but may have an impact on how long the cider holds the carbonation also. Not sure on that.

To ensure proper carbonation make sure you allow ample time for conditioning. Mine seem to take several weeks, perhaps a month, to reach full carbonation even at room temperature.

If you have any doubt I would recommend making a small (or large if you prefer!) sample batch using different amounts of priming sugar in marked bottles. Wait a good while then sample each and decide which turned out best.

Click to expand...

The wedding is in August, but I need to have it bottled by the middle of June. Maybe doing a couple test bottles might not be a bad idea...

ace1719 said:

Yeah, and I'm worried about this. I've pushed this yeast up to 14%, but the OG of that cider was 1.125, and it finished at 1.040.

This cider is pretty clear. I can almost see to the bottom of the bucket. I'm worried that yeast might be pretty much done, and 1 c of sugar won't make a difference. What do you say to pitching a pack of EC1118, waiting a couple weeks, and then priming and bottling?

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I guess that's a plan. Hopefully fermentation will start up again and continue down to where you want it to end. I've read that EC118 is very aggressive and will out compete whatever was in there before.

I'm quite excited to see where this goes. I'm working towards a similar goal for 2016.

I've only recently begun using Nottingham, but I've been primarily learning with EC-1118 for ciders and sparkling wines with reasonable success. The yeast works very well, even with low nutrients and high alcohol environments.

For my sparkling cider, I haven't had to add that much sugar. I add about 8g/L for crackling, and 15g/L for sparkling with adequate carbonation after about two to three weeks (Jolicoeur, "The New Cidermaker's Handbook"). I'd like to use some dextrose for a finer bubble, but I'm just using cane sugar at this time.

I'm quite new to brewing though.

bernardsmith said:

.....EC -1118 will probably cost you $2.00 (good for about 6 gallons)
....

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Dunno, 'round these parts, a pack of 1118 is like deer nuts....under a buck