Help with Saisson

I'm getting ready to brew a Saisson, with Wyeast 3711. (extract)

Assuming my original gravity is around 1.065, how many packs of the yeast should I get, and / or how big should my starter be? I've been having some problems with stuck fermentations.

Providing that your batch is five gallons and when the yeast was made then you need 1 pack with a 3-3.5 liter starter. You could also use 2 packs with a 1.3 liter starter. A Saison is very dry so toward the end of your fermenation you will need to ramp up your temp pretty high. Jamil said he usally gets in the high 70's to low 80's, but no more than 85F.

get 1 vial of yeast and start a 1/2gal starter 36-48 hours before pitching

Ferment in the mid to upper 70's for 4 weeks

at 10 and 20 days, rock the fermenter to make sure the yeast is up into suspension

I have done a saison with just a vial of white labs yeast (no starter) and it came out just fine.

I went like 10 days primary. 2-68 3-70 and the rest as hot as I could find. It dried out to 08 no probs using 3726.

Edit:
Forgot to answer OP q. I did 1 pack with a starter that I only ran like 12-15hrs. Saisons are supposed to be one of the few you should under pitch so the yeast can do its what its supposed to.

I just brewed a PM Saison a few weeks ago with Wy 3711, OG was 1.059 and I made a 1.5L starter with one pack that I swirled as often as I remembered to. Hydro samples so far have tasted great and it attenuated down to 1.007 in 6 days with gradually elevated temperatures up to 81 degrees.

I would make a starter anywhere between 1.5L and 2L for an OG of 1.065.

Mr. Malty has a great pitching rate calculator: Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

It will tell you how many packets of yeast you need with how much starter volume, and takes into consideration the age of the yeast, the starting gravity of your wort, and your method for making the starter (e.g. simple, intermittent shaking, stir plate).

It definitely pays to pitch enough yeast for a healthy fermentation.

-Steve

Since you are doing an extract batch, sub 20% of your DME with cane sugar so that the beer finishes dry enough. This is assuming you don't have any sugar in the recipe already. The sugar can be up to 20% of the total fermentables.

I did a 1.056 saison yesterday with this yeast. 1.2L starter. Visible signs of fermentation within 6 hrs. I've heard that this strain does not require elevated temperatures like Wyeast 3724 requires. I was told that low to mid 70s ambient was optimum. That being said, I'm fermenting away at 77 right now, at the upper end of Wyeast's stated range. Although based on some reading, people have fermented in the low 80s and come out with great tasting beer.

My saison has taken almost a month to ferment and the yeast I used refused to even ferment below 80F. The best fermenting and flavor keeps coming at 85F for me. Good luck.

Oh, and pitch a large starter. I actually pitched two separate Saison yeasts. One at the beginning and one in the end.

Mine has been sitting in the secondary for about 4 weeks now . . . ready to bottle. Going to try to do that tomorrow night . . . OG was about 1.056, FG is about 1.009 . . .

How much sugar (cups per gallon) should I use to prime?

Will there be enough yeast left to carbonate?

Thanks in advance.

-Steve

You should have plenty of yeast left to carbonate. For a Saison the amount of sugar I had recommended to me was 130g glucose per 5 gallons. -- Always weigh sugar because it compacts.

maztec said:

You should have plenty of yeast left to carbonate. For a Saison the amount of sugar I had recommended to me was 130g glucose per 5 gallons. -- Always weigh sugar because it compacts.

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Thanks . . . Was not able to get a scale . . . fluffed the sugar and used 7/8's cup . . . misscalculated my volumn (gott'a mark that carboy) and only got 4.5 gal (too late, sugar was in there)

Sucked up a little yeast off the bottom to . . . I think I'll be ok, but I'm going to double bag those cases until I see how they carb up . . .

On a mission to find a digital scale!!!

-Steve

SavageSteve said:

Mr. Malty has a great pitching rate calculator: Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

It will tell you how many packets of yeast you need with how much starter volume, and takes into consideration the age of the yeast, the starting gravity of your wort, and your method for making the starter (e.g. simple, intermittent shaking, stir plate).

It definitely pays to pitch enough yeast for a healthy fermentation.

-Steve

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+1

I would highly recommend listening to Jamil's podcast on brewing Saisons available from the brewing network. I used Jamil's recipe and listened two his show twice before brewing mine. It is currently aging a bit but tastes amazing -- already it's the best beer I've ever brewed and it keeps getting better.

Stevorino said:

I would highly recommend listening to Jamil's podcast on brewing Saisons available from the brewing network. I used Jamil's recipe and listened two his show twice before brewing mine. It is currently aging a bit but tastes amazing -- already it's the best beer I've ever brewed and it keeps getting better.

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+1 on that, too. I listened to that podcast twice, and the part about fermentation several more times. Also read the section on Saison in Brewing Classic Styles. Those are the main reasons I had the confidence to try the Saison I brewed last week.

I made a starter according to Mr. Malty's pitching rate calculator, and it was off and running within a few hours after pitching into the wort.

-Steve