First Imperial IPA recipe: advice and comments

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MrHadack

MrHadack

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Hi everyone,

Some friends of mine have requested I brew a strong IPA. I don't drink a lot of IPA or Imperial IPA, and I have never brewed one, so my experience is limited. IPAs I have tried and liked are Wachusett's Larry, Pliny the Elder, and Ithaca Flower Power.

I know you want to keep the malt bill relatively simple, but it needs to be strong enough to stand up and support the powerful hop character. With that in mind, here's the recipe I came up with. If anyone could lend advice or offer commentary on changes they'd make (or general IPA brewing tips) I'd be most grateful.

6 Gallon Batch
2-Row (13#)
White wheat (2#)
Light Crystal (2#)
Mash @ 155

90 minute Boil:
Corn Sugar (2#)
Bravo Hops, 17.3%, 1.5oz 90min
Sterling Hops, 9.3%, 1oz 45min
Crystal Hops, 3.3%, 1oz Post Boil (hopback)

California Ale Yeast, White Labs 001

Dry Hopping in Secondary:
2oz Sterling
2oz Bravo

Some other notes:
I have 3lbs of fresh leaf hops to use (1 pound each Bravo, Sterling, and Crystal) and from what I have read I figure this would work well. I could be wayyyy off base because of my lack of hop experience. I plugged this recipe into software and it APPEARS to look ok. But I prefer real world advice to software any day.

Thanks!
 
Are those measures in the hops schedule for fresh leaf hops? It looks like a schedule for dried/pellet hops. If they are wet (you said fresh, but Ive seen dry whole leaf hops called 'fresh') you want to use something like ~6oz wet hops for ever 1oz of dried/pellet hops called for. Other than that it looks like a stellar recipe. I have found that brown sugar works well in my IPA recipes to bump up the ABV.
 
Yeah, that recipe looks pretty on point. I've never used Bravo before...I usually use Warrior hops for my main bittering, but as long as you get the IBU's up there and have a nice floral hoppy aroma it works. The more I look at it, you probably dont need all 4 oz of hops for dry hopping...1oz of each should do the trick and leave more for the next brew. Cheers
 
Perfect-- thanks for the input. I'll cut the dry hopping as recommended and see how it works.
 
Do not use 2 whole pounds of crystal! IPAs are much more enjoyable when a little crisp and dry. Also, I really like what a pound of munich malt brings to an IPA. I would cut back the crystal to 8 ounces and add a pound of munich
 
Also I don't see a flavor hop addition. I don't know if that was intentional or not but I figured I would point it out since most IPAs have a hop flavor component.
 
Personally I would up the 2-row and do away with the corn sugar, but that's just me. I've only used brown sugar once and didn't like the results. I have no personal experience with corn sugar, but I haven't heard good things.
 
I've had no probs with corn sugar in the boil. 100% fermentable and supposedly dries the beer a bit, which I like in a medium IPA.

"All your home brew are belong to us!"
 
Okay, recipe modified. I added some commentary as well so people can correct any misconceptions I have with the process.

6 Gallon Batch
American 2-Row (15#) (Raised base malt and got rid of corn sugar)
White wheat (2#) (Head retention)
Munich malt (1#) (As recommended, I assume this is to add complexity)
Crystal 40L (.5#) (To get color up)
Mash @ 151 (I know lower temps are typical, but I want a little more body)

Boil Hop Additions:
Bravo Hops, 17.3%, 1oz 90min
Sterling Hops, 9.3%, 1oz 60min
Crystal Hops, 3.3%, 1oz 30min

Secondary:
2oz Sterling
2oz Bravo
(I read 2oz is good for a moderate aroma... I want this to have a real pop to it.)

Yeast: WLP 001 (California Ale)

Thoughts?
 
The numbers (based on 75% efficiency, 80% attenuation which is usually where I end up on previous beers I have done.)

OG: 1.079
TG: 1.016
SRM: 10.69
ABV: 8.31%
IBU: 90.3
 
4oz of dry hops is a lot..why not make that 2 oz and actually add some later/flavor hop additions with the other 2oz? All your hop additions are bittering.
 
Stankonia,
Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will make the following change:

Boil Hop Additions:
Bravo Hops, 17.3%, 1oz 90min
Sterling Hops, 9.3%, 1oz 60min
Crystal Hops, 3.3%, 1oz 5min
Sterling Hops, 9.3%, 1oz 5min


Secondary:
1oz Sterling
1oz Bravo
 
bottlebomber said:
Do not use 2 whole pounds of crystal! IPAs are much more enjoyable when a little crisp and dry. Also, I really like what a pound of munich malt brings to an IPA. I would cut back the crystal to 8 ounces and add a pound of munich
Click to expand...

This! Even .5 pound of crystal may be a bit much but would be alright.

Sterling and crystal hops have very little "hoppy flavor" and are clean finishing hops like you'd use for German lagers. The recipe you have posted is a bitter beer with no hoppy flavor or aroma, but a "clean" flavor due to the hops.

I'd totally redo, as I'd change the grainbill to two-row, .5 pound wheat (or carapils for head retention), and a pound of corn sugar to get your OG to 1.080. Then I'd hop with 50 IBUs at 60 minutes, and add hops at 15/5/0/dryhop. I'd use either American varieties of hops like centennial, citra, amarillo, cascade OR English varieties like fuggles and EKG. Even willamette would be better than sterling and crystal.

If you like Pliny, you will NOT like the recipe you posted. Check out the Pliny recipe here on the forum, or other IIPA recipes for some great suggestions!
 
If you like Pliny then that beer has sugar added at boil. I did a pound in my clone attempt and it turned out great.

I would only have one bittering hop addition. I like to boil for 90 min but not add my first bittering addition until 60. That way I can check how my boil off is going and adjust if necessary. I think you need a good 1.5 oz or so at 15 min. Possibly another 1 oz at flameout. Dry hops looks good.
 
Yooper said:
This! Even .5 pound of crystal may be a bit much but would be alright.

Sterling and crystal hops have very little "hoppy flavor" and are clean finishing hops like you'd use for German lagers. The recipe you have posted is a bitter beer with no hoppy flavor or aroma, but a "clean" flavor due to the hops.

I'd totally redo, as I'd change the grainbill to two-row, .5 pound wheat (or carapils for head retention), and a pound of corn sugar to get your OG to 1.080. Then I'd hop with 50 IBUs at 60 minutes, and add hops at 15/5/0/dryhop. I'd use either American varieties of hops like centennial, citra, amarillo, cascade OR English varieties like fuggles and EKG. Even willamette would be better than sterling and crystal.

If you like Pliny, you will NOT like the recipe you posted. Check out the Pliny recipe here on the forum, or other IIPA recipes for some great suggestions!
Click to expand...

ALL OF THAT.

Your recipe does appear to have the right amount of IBUs for the style, but the literal IBU count is not what American-style IPAs and IIPAs are all about. What matters is plenty of late hopping with the right varieties of citrusy, resinous, evergreen American hops.

Here's a description from the internet of crystal hops: "Aroma: Mild, Floral". The term "mild" has no place in the description of hop character for an IIPA. Here's a description of Centennial: "Aroma: Pungent. Citrus-Like. Floral but not as floral as Cascade. More bitter than Cascade though. " That's more like it.

As far as the malt bill goes, I agree that the crystal malt needs to be drastically reduced. Do not be afraid that there won't be enough balancing malt character, you're putting plenty of malt in to get to that gravity and it will be noticeable. Besides, balance is not what these beers are about. The malt needs to get out of the way so the hops can shine. For example, with my IIPA I mash very low and include about 5% of a low lovibond crystal malt.

Here's a PDF that was purportedly created by Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River (brewer of Pliny the Elder). Hopefully it can provide some inspiration.

http://beerdujour.com/recipes/1pliny the elder clone pdf.pdf

Good luck! Once you start brewing these you may never go back...
 
Okay, that does it. I have three 1 pound bags of Bravo, Sterling, and Crystal, and I realize now I am trying to shoe-horn them in where they don't belong. They're not IIPA hops and I know better than that. Thanks for the reality check.

Let me figure out my new selections and boil schedule and I will post back later today. Thanks everyone!

In the meantime, I just finished learning some stuff about water chemistry. I found a combination of brewer salts and additives that will make my water almost perfectly match Burton-on-Trent's chemistry (higher sulfates, calcium, carbonates) and the Ph comes right on target with a 9 SRM beer. Should I bother to do this, and is there anything I should be warned about?
 
Stankonia said:
4oz of dry hops is a lot
Click to expand...

not for an IIPA

MrHadack said:
Okay, that does it. I have three 1 pound bags of Bravo, Sterling, and Crystal, and I realize now I am trying to shoe-horn them in where they don't belong. They're not IIPA hops and I know better than that. Thanks for the reality check.
Click to expand...

the bravo would be ok, its just not typical. id prolly just bitter with the bravo and stick to more typical hops noted for your late adds tho.
 
MrHadack said:
Okay, that does it. I have three 1 pound bags of Bravo, Sterling, and Crystal, and I realize now I am trying to shoe-horn them in where they don't belong. They're not IIPA hops and I know better than that. Thanks for the reality check.

Let me figure out my new selections and boil schedule and I will post back later today. Thanks everyone!

In the meantime, I just finished learning some stuff about water chemistry. I found a combination of brewer salts and additives that will make my water almost perfectly match Burton-on-Trent's chemistry (higher sulfates, calcium, carbonates) and the Ph comes right on target with a 9 SRM beer. Should I bother to do this, and is there anything I should be warned about?
Click to expand...

The problem with trying to "hit" that water is that it's probably not doable.
 
Yooper said:
The problem with trying to "hit" that water is that it's probably not doable.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, why not? I have a copy of my water report with the levels of Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfates, and so on. The water in my area is really soft with almost no minerals or salts; it's like working with a blank slate. By adding a gram of Gypsum, a gram of baking soda and a couple other things I can get a gallon of water to have around the same ppm of each of the main features of the Burton water (I don't have the numbers with me, but can post when I get home. Perhaps I don't understand fully how it works, which I would certainly believe.)

Regardless, here's a recipe update. I just purchased 8oz each of the following: Chinook, Simcoe, Amarillo, Citra. I modified the grains as well. Here's the new recipe:

6 Gallon Batch
American 2-Row (18#)
White wheat (.5#)
Munich malt (1#) (honey malt, biscuit malt, or whatever)
Crystal Malt (.25#)
Mash @ 150

Boil Hop Additions:
Bravo, 17.3%, 1oz 60min (Might as well use these for bittering!)
Simcoe, 13%, 1oz 15min
Chinook, 13%, 1oz 5min
Amarillo, 12%, 1oz 0min

Dry Hop Secondary:
2oz Citra
2oz Amarillo

Do I owe everyone a bottle when it is done for all this help? :mug:
 
Stankonia said:
Well with around 5.5gallons in a carboy, 4oz of leaf hops would take up quite a bit of space, and my point was that some of those 4oz would be better utilized in the last 10-15 minutes of the boil.
Click to expand...

That's a consideration, too. I'll give it some thought.
 
Back to water fora minute. Here are the specifics about my water chemistry:

  • Alkalinity 42.0 ppm
  • Calcium 4.5 ppm
  • Magnesium 0.9 ppm
  • Bicarbonate 51.2 ppm
  • Sulfate 6.9 ppm
  • Sodium 33.4 ppm
  • Chlorine 2.5 ppm

If I add 1g calcium carbonate, 4g gypsum, 1g Epsom salt, and 0.6g sodium bicarbonate per gallon of water, I end up with the following totals (compared with Burton-on-Trent water chemistry in parenthesis):

  • Alkalinity 266 (262)
  • Calcium 360 (352)
  • Magnesium 38 (24)
  • Bicarbonate 325 (320)
  • Sulfate 740 (820)
  • Sodium 78 (54)
  • Chlorine 3 (16)

Is it that straight-forward or am I missing something?
 
MrHadack said:
Out of curiosity, why not? I have a copy of my water report with the levels of Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfates, and so on. The water in my area is really soft with almost no minerals or salts; it's like working with a blank slate. By adding a gram of Gypsum, a gram of baking soda and a couple other things I can get a gallon of water to have around the same ppm of each of the main features of the Burton water (I don't have the numbers with me, but can post when I get home. Perhaps I don't understand fully how it works, which I would certainly believe.)
Click to expand...

I'm not good at explaining water chemistry (barely can understand it enough myself, let alone explain anything!) but it has to do with alkalinity. Here's a thread that talks about it from a water expert (AJ Delange), but it's not exactly what I was looking for at this moment: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/burtonizing-246782/
 
Thanks, Yooper.

Generally, do experienced home brewers adjust their water beyond the Ph to emphasize certain minerals? Is there any tangible benefit (i.e. raising the sulfate levels produces a better IPA)?
 
MrHadack said:
Thanks, Yooper.

Generally, do experienced home brewers adjust their water beyond the Ph to emphasize certain minerals? Is there any tangible benefit (i.e. raising the sulfate levels produces a better IPA)?
Click to expand...

Yes. And no. :p

What I mean is this- you want enough of the minerals for proper pH and yeast health. The "flavor" ions may or may not be adjusted, to taste. I'm finding that a much lower sulfate amount that in the "pale ale" profiles actually gives me better results. It's true that some sulfate enhances bitterness, while chloride provides a "fuller, rounder" beer. But I'm finding that a fairly low amount of both (along with lower alkalinity from diluting with RO water) gives me repeatable and wonderful results!

A typical water profile for me (I make primarily IPAs and APAS) looks like this:
Calcium-87 Magnesium-16 Sodium-5 Chloride-59 Sulfate-86 mash pH 5.45

As I said, I make hoppy beers 3 out of 4 times I brew, maybe more, and I'm really finding that "less is more". If you want to go with a good IPA water profile, you could try Mosher's ideal pale ale profile, but probably skip Burtonizing. Lots and lots of brewers target a "pale ale profile" with great results, and I wouldn't discount that at all. It's just been my experience is that the less a water profile is manipulated, the better the beer!

In addition, chalk doesn't dissolve anyway in the mash water properly without extraneous measures. But if you want to give it a try, maybe scale down the amounts, and try adding it to your water and see how it tastes. If you LIKE the taste of sodium bicarb and chalk in water, maybe you'd like it added to your beer. I don't.
 
Very helpful, thanks. I think I'll add some stuff to plain water and taste it to see what it does, that way I won't ruin a batch by over-thinking things. What I have noticed is that bottled waters, like Dasani, that add salts have a better flavor to them than other types of bottled water. I guess it can contribute to mouth-feel. But so far the stuff I've been brewing has come out okay in that department so if it ain't broke... :D
 
Yooper said:
Yes. And no. :p

What I mean is this- you want enough of the minerals for proper pH and yeast health. The "flavor" ions may or may not be adjusted, to taste. I'm finding that a much lower sulfate amount that in the "pale ale" profiles actually gives me better results. It's true that some sulfate enhances bitterness, while chloride provides a "fuller, rounder" beer. But I'm finding that a fairly low amount of both (along with lower alkalinity from diluting with RO water) gives me repeatable and wonderful results!

A typical water profile for me (I make primarily IPAs and APAS) looks like this:
Calcium-87 Magnesium-16 Sodium-5 Chloride-59 Sulfate-86 mash pH 5.45

As I said, I make hoppy beers 3 out of 4 times I brew, maybe more, and I'm really finding that "less is more". If you want to go with a good IPA water profile, you could try Mosher's ideal pale ale profile, but probably skip Burtonizing. Lots and lots of brewers target a "pale ale profile" with great results, and I wouldn't discount that at all. It's just been my experience is that the less a water profile is manipulated, the better the beer!

In addition, chalk doesn't dissolve anyway in the mash water properly without extraneous measures. But if you want to give it a try, maybe scale down the amounts, and try adding it to your water and see how it tastes. If you LIKE the taste of sodium bicarb and chalk in water, maybe you'd like it added to your beer. I don't.
Click to expand...

I agree +1. When doing any hoppy beers I have found that less is really the best. I wish I had soft water. It works so well with hops, as my hard water made most of my hoppy beers so harsh. When I started building from RO I found that my hoppy beers became what I wanted. Never been a "region" water builder, but more of a style builder.
 
Well, I have sent some messages back and forth with AJDelange and spent a few hours reading some water chemistry stuff. I downloaded the Bru'n Water spreadsheet and have been reading through it and it's helping greatly. Scrap all my questions regarding water additions above. I have a much better grasp on it now, as much as one can possibly grasp the tip of an iceberg :)

Less-is-more will be my approach as well. The beers I have been making for the past few years without paying attention to water chemistry or Ph at all have come out rather well already, so perhaps just some minor tweaks are in order to really take some of them to the next level.

This thread has been a real game-changer for me. Thanks to everyone for the help.
 
MrHadack said:
Well, I have sent some messages back and forth with AJDelange and spent a few hours reading some water chemistry stuff. .........

I have a much better grasp on it now, as much as one can possibly grasp the tip of an iceberg :)
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean! I always considered myself a pretty intelligent person until I "talked" to AJ. I'm just happy I can actually understand about 25% of what he says! :D
 
I have and its awesome. It calculates out really high IBU levels, but its so balanced you'd never know. Anything 100+ you can't tell the diff anyways.
 
and from a quick google search--

CTZ Hops (Columbus, Tomahawk, Zues) Pungent "American Hop" Aroma, High alpha hop.
Some say that it has an onion/garlic/dank character that for many years defined the
American IPA style.
 
Okay, I am back with a yeast question for this recipe:

I originally was going to use WLP001 for this batch, but I couldn't get my hands on any. Instead, I am using WLP007 which I was told works well for DIPA and IPA.

However, I have read in some spots that since this strain is a high attenuator I should mash at a higher temperature. My original target was for around 150 with the WLP001, but I was told to go higher, maybe 155+ with the WLP007. Any thoughts on this? From what I understand about mashing, the attenuation is primarily set by the mash temp (alpha and beta activity) and not the yeast. So it really shouldn't matter, and the mash at 150 should be fine. Any thoughts on this?
 

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