Is this illegal?

Giving a bottle of homebrew away in a contest?

Let me give you the details. I'm a horror writer, and I like to do giveaways in conjunction with story/book releases. I usually just give away books or magazines. But it occurred to me it might be cool to offer a bottle of my pumpkin ale in a raffle I'm going to do in November, for my 1st novel release.

I'm not looking to get away with anything; I'm not looking for loopholes. If it's illegal, I will not do it. I just can't figure if it would be...

I'd require age verification. There is NO MONEY changing hands; these are free to enter (usually in the "leave a comment on my blog and I'll enter you" style). Further, it doesn't seem to go against the Pennsylvania Homebrew Statute: "Malt or brewed beverages produced in accordance with this paragraph may be used at organized affairs, exhibitions, competitions, contests, tastings or judging provided it is not sold or offered for sale" http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/pennsylvania

However, what worries me is the mail aspect. I'd have to mail the beer to the winner. I know that it's illegal for breweries to ship beer to PA, but as near as I can tell, it is only for beer being sold. I found this: "Mail-order sales of alcohol in Pennsylvania are prohibited under the so-called three-tier system of distribution in which beer must be sold through licensed, locally owned wholesalers. The system, designed in the post-Prohibition years, is intended to give the state greater control of alcohol sales and aid in the collection of taxes."

But still, I want to be completely sure I'm not breaking any laws if I do this, and I am not an expert. Any help is appreciated.

Mailing alcohol though the US Postal Service is illegal.

For comps or exchanges, we send through UPS or Fed-Ex; though there are some policies that vary by office.

As far as the other aspects of this, I can't say...

AZ_IPA said:

Mailing alcohol though the US Postal Service is illegal.

For comps or exchanges, we send through UPS or Fed-Ex; though there are some policies that vary by office.

As far as the other aspects of this, I can't say...

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So as long as I don't use the US postal service, I should be okay (on the mailing part), correct? Thanks for the advice.

Raffles aren't even legal in many states whether or not you are giving away alcohol.

LVBen said:

Raffles aren't even legal in many states whether or not you are giving away alcohol.

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Free raffles are illegal? (Remember, I'm not charging any money. This is strictly a free giveaway.). Hmmm... Well, I'm fairly certain it's legal in PA because all the fairs and churches and such do raffles (the type you have to buy a ticket for). But I'll check on it, thanks.

onipar said:

So as long as I don't use the US postal service, I should be okay (on the mailing part), correct? Thanks for the advice.

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It's not "illegal" to use UPS/Fed-Ex, though often it is considered against policy. And to be completely legal, I think those companies offer forms/regulations to deal with; though I'd be lying to say that I've followed that.

You'll notice around the holidays, the employees at the UPS/Fed-Ex stores will ask if you're shipping booze. The only other time they ask is when you ship to an address such as a brewery (I out foxed them and asked why would I ship beer to a brewery? It was the hub for a competition)

I ship Yeast Samples.

onipar said:

Free raffles are illegal? Hmmm... Well, I'm fairly certain it's legal in PA because all the fairs and churches and such do raffles (the type you have to buy a ticket for). But I'll check on it, thanks.

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If it is free, then I don't think it is technically a raffle.

Charitable raffles are legal in some states as long at they fit certain criteria. In Nevada, I think the prizes have to be worth less than $2500. I have heard of wine giveaways in charity raffles, but if you are doing it for promotional purposes, then I think you are in a whole other ball park.

IrregularPulse said:

I ship Yeast Samples.

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Lol! Are they preserved in 12 ounces of beer?

LVBen said:

If it is free, then I don't think it is technically a raffle.

Charitable raffles are legal in some states as long at they fit certain criteria. In Nevada, I think the prizes have to be worth less than $2500. I have heard of wine giveaways in charity raffles, but if you are doing it for promotional purposes, then I think you are in a whole other ball park.

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Very true, I'm not really doing a raffle. I usually just call it a "giveaway." Although I just did a search and I guess it could also be considered a "sweepstakes." I found some good info about that, which basically states as long as I'm not charging to enter, and offer an easy "alternative entry method," it's legal. So I think I'm okay on that end.

And if I follow the FedEx rules and fill out whatever it is I have to fill out, I should be okay on that end as well.

This is starting to sound doable I think. :rockin:

onipar said:

Very true, I'm not really doing a raffle. I usually just call it a "giveaway." Although I just did a search and I guess it could also be considered a "sweepstakes." I found some good info about that, which basically states as long as I'm not charging to enter, and offer an easy "alternative entry method," it's legal. So I think I'm okay on that end.

And if I follow the FedEx rules and fill out whatever it is I have to fill out, I should be okay on that end as well.

This is starting to sound doable I think. :rockin:

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Yeah, and it sounds like you are safe on giving away homebrews according to PA law. http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/pennsylvania

You may want to consider the packaging. Wrapping it in a ziplock, that sort of thing.

Personally I wouldn't. Most drugs, not sure alcohol is included, are considered "sold" even if money doesn't exchange hands. Furthermore, How do you know who is on the recieving end of the mailing? Not worth the risk to me.
Anytime you're dealing with "legaleze" you better be well versed in the law or have deep pockets to pay for an attorney.

FYI raffles are legal in PA, I've run them a few times FOR cash (I've run a bunch of charity events in the past). If you're concerned, call your local PD on their non-emergency number. They'll be able to answer your question.

As for shipping in PA, that is illegal to do. However, shipping decorative bottles with unknown contents is completely legit, so I've been told

As for legality, if you're not selling it, you're most likely ok. The one concern is that if they were to get sick (contaminated batch or bottle) you could be liable. That's extremely unlikely, but you have to weigh it in your mind. I'd be down to enter the raffle too - I'm working to gather up a bunch of pumpkin ales for a tasting night soon

If you are not obviously intending to make money and circumvent paying taxes, you have nothing to worry about. This is what all these laws are about.

It is probably illegal but really.....nobody cares. A district attorney has much more important cases to deal with than someone shipping a beer through the mail or raffling off a bottle of homebrew. Do realize how much time and money it would take the government to prosecute you? It would be on par with the police shutting down a kids' lemonade stand. Now if you are running a business selling alcohol illegally that is a different matter. What you are doing is the equivalent of jaywalking or driving 5 mph over the speed limit. Technically illegal but..........

Ive seen info on sending in your homebrew for AHA clubs on websites,stating if you cant make it send your bottles with... on and on with instructions listed for mailing them.

Great, thanks for all the input.

To clarify, I wanted to make sure about legality mostly because I don't want my publisher needlessly dragged into legal problems because of a silly giveaway I decided to do.

Smashing, as for who is on the receiving end, I'm planning on using an "official rules" with all the boiler plate "void where prohibited, must be 21 years of age to enter, no purchase necessary, etc etc." For age verification, I'm thinking something along the lines of a simple "signed" document stating that they are of age. But if anyone has a better idea, I'm glad to hear it.

msarro, if you're down, maybe we could start a thread in the "swap" area of the forum for pumpkin ales. I was discussing a possible swap with someone who brewed my recipe with some modifications, so I'd be interested in sending out bottles for other people's pumpkin brews.

Well, actually, I'm planning on tasting mine first to make sure it's worthy of swap, but if it is, yeah. Up for trades.

I dont think UPS/FedEx give 2 poops if you ship alcohol. Im a UPS driver and I deliver alcohol all the time. The only kicker is, the consignee has to be >21 and not drunk when I deliver it them.

onipar said:

"leave a comment on my blog and I'll enter you"

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Lol... I guess I'm the only one with a dirty mind here.

IrregularPulse said:

I ship Yeast Samples.

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How do I enter? (the contest, you sick perv.)

Homercidal said:

How do I enter? (the contest, you sick perv.)

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I won't be doing the contest until some time in November when my novel comes out. I'll be sure to post a reminder here though.

onipar said:

I won't be doing the contest until some time in November when my novel comes out. I'll be sure to post a reminder here though.

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Is is being printed, or is this a Kindle / electronic release?

passedpawn said:

Is is being printed, or is this a Kindle / electronic release?

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I'd love to hear more about the novel as well, and whether you have any short stories published already online or in print that I could check out. Always good to see another brewer with a literary bent - it proves that one can find the time for both! I haven't finished my first novel yet, but working on it.

Jesus, what an incredible waste of time. There is no way on Earth that you'd get in trouble for this, even if it was illegal, which I am not even going to waste the brain cell energy to ponder.

LandoLincoln said:

Jesus, what an incredible waste of time. There is no way on Earth that you'd get in trouble for this, even if it was illegal, which I am not even going to waste the brain cell energy to ponder.

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testy....

LandoLincoln said:

Jesus, what an incredible waste of time. There is no way on Earth that you'd get in trouble for this, even if it was illegal, which I am not even going to waste the brain cell energy to ponder.

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But you did intact take the time to post, didn't you. You could have spent that time saying something useful.

passedpawn said:

Is is being printed, or is this a Kindle / electronic release?

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shawnbou and passedpawn: Thanks for the interest in the novel. It's being released by Bad Moon Books (tentatively in November) and will have a special edition Hardcover copy (signed, numbered, etc) and a trade paperback copy. I believe some time after the initial print run they will release an electronic copy, but I haven't signed any contracts for those particular rights yet.

The novel is called Soundtrack to the End of the World, and follows the story of Marty Raft and his pal Corey. The short synopsis from my old query letter:

A suicidal nudist strolls into traffic. An eccentric Buddhist claims he can occupy other people’s bodies. All the while, whispers of a new form of entertainment blow through town. Prompted by these strange occurrences, Marty Raft, a not-so-gentle giant, investigates and discovers underground clubs peddling music that induces an out-of-body experience.

But these special frequencies prove to permanently alter the spectators, turning scores of club-goers into soulless wanderers. Marty's initial goal of deciphering the new zombie enigma is sidetracked when the ghouls transform his best friend. Marty knows how he is supposed to handle zombies, but he also knows these aren’t like the ones from movies.

With the help of a determined aura reader--who claims she is a scientist and not some granola-crunching hippie--Marty sets out to defy the odds and save his friend, all the time believing there must be a cure.

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I do have some short stories available through my website (in my sig). There are a couple you can get to for free that were published in online mags, and a couple that are only in print (and a few out of print now). I have a bunch of new stuff coming out over the course of the year.

LandoLincoln, gotta be honest, about the only waste of time here was your post. When you have a business (in this case a publishing house) linked to your name, being conscious of the law is the only smart move.

By the way, shawnbou, do you have any stuff available to read? Keep at the writing; sometimes it takes a while, but it's worth it. Writing is really my side hobby/job. I'm an English professor by day.

onipar - Sent you a PM so I don't drag this thread too far off topic. :fro:

Celticway said:

But you did intact take the time to post, didn't you. You could have spent that time saying something useful.

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Oh, all right. Here.

"Stop worrying about such pointless things. Imagining that someone is going to haul you off to jail for offering someone a free growler of beer as a prize to a free raffle smacks of extreme self-centered beliefs. You really are not worth the time to the authorities."

How's that?

LandoLincoln said:

Oh, all right. Here.

"Stop worrying about such pointless things. Imagining that someone is going to haul you off to jail for offering someone a free growler of beer as a prize to a free raffle smacks of extreme self-centered beliefs. You really are not worth the time to the authorities."

How's that?

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+1.....laws regarding homebrewed beer are rarely, if ever, enforced. I am NOT saying you should break the law but there is also no "boogeyman" gov't official ready to bust you. The police, DA, ABC, etc....have MUCH bigger things to deal with. It simply isn't worth their time.

Never mind. Started to write something along the lines of "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" but then my troll-dar went off and i decided not to.

IrregularPulse said:

I ship Yeast Samples.

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I'm NOT TROLLING. You know how everybody on here is always saying "relax, don't worry?" The same applies to this situation, and most legal situations on here.

Seriously, what is the WORST THING that's going to happen? Some guy is going to call or email him and say, "Hey, you can't do that. That's illegal. Stop that." And then he'll say, "Okay, sorry." And that will be the end of it. No one's going to court, no one's going to jail, no one's going to get a ticket, or a fine, or even a stern talking to.

RDWHAHB. Get over yourselves already.

shawnbou said:

onipar - Sent you a PM so I don't drag this thread too far off topic. :fro:

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Thanks for the PM, I'll respond tomorrow. Looks like you really didn't have to worry much about taking this thread off topic

Thanks again to everyone who gave helpful comments. It's helped greatly. I now know which mail carrier to use, the correct paperwork to file, and the official rules I can use for the contest page.

Agree with LandoLincoln. I am a lawyer (in Canada) and seriously you're being ridiculously paranoid (especially for an American). Ship the beer wherever you want. Nothing will happen. Even it is technically illegal then it is only "technically". I think after spending + billion dollars on combatting terrorism, the so-called authorities are not worried about horror writers giving away some pumpkin ale.

LandoLincoln said:

Oh, all right. Here.

"Stop worrying about such pointless things. Imagining that someone is going to haul you off to jail for offering someone a free growler of beer as a prize to a free raffle smacks of extreme self-centered beliefs. You really are not worth the time to the authorities."

How's that?

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That's much better!