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BigB

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I bought some Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II from my LHBS on Wednesday. I put it in the fridge when I got home and then first thing on Thursday morning I found the inner pack and smacked the package. I ensured I popped the inner pack. Then I shook the package and placed it on the counter (air temp 70f). Well 5 hours later I had no swelling whatsoever. I realized the package was 4 months old so I figured I would give it 24 hours. As of today, still nothing, not even a hint of swelling. What do you think? Take it back to LHBS?
 
Are you certain you popped the little bag? I have trouble with that pesky thing all the time.
 
I bought some Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II from my LHBS on Wednesday. I put it in the fridge when I got home and then first thing on Thursday morning I found the inner pack and smacked the package. I ensured I popped the inner pack. Then I shook the package and placed it on the counter (air temp 70f). Well 5 hours later I had no swelling whatsoever. I realized the package was 4 months old so I figured I would give it 24 hours. As of today, still nothing, not even a hint of swelling. What do you think? Take it back to LHBS?

I am having the same problem with 1762 dated nov 09.I made a starter
to prove or not if the yeast was bad and over 30 hrs with no activity.
 
Positive I popped the inner bag.

I thought about making a starter, but at $7.50 for a package of yeast, I was thinking maybe I shouldn't risk the LHBS giving me crap for opening it. I did find a reference on Wyeast's site that with a frozen pack (which mine was not while in my possession) if there is no swelling after 24 hours, don't use it.

I guess I was more curious if this is typical for this strain. I wouldn't think so... Heck its yeast, its got to produce CO2
 
Positive I popped the inner bag.

I thought about making a starter, but at $7.50 for a package of yeast, I was thinking maybe I shouldn't risk the LHBS giving me crap for opening it. I did find a reference on Wyeast's site that with a frozen pack (which mine was not while in my possession) if there is no swelling after 24 hours, don't use it.

I guess I was more curious if this is typical for this strain. I wouldn't think so... Heck its yeast, its got to produce CO2

the starter is the only way to know for sure.One thing i do when i get my yeast,after smacking it i put the packet on a counter and walk my fingers
up then down the packet to make sure the nutrient bag is opened inside.
 
I am having the same problem with 1762 dated nov 09.I made a starter
to prove or not if the yeast was bad and over 30 hrs with no activity.

There is very little activity with making starters, rarely do they bubble, even more rarely is there a krausen that we see. The only true activity that most of us see is just a creamy band at the bottom when it flocculates out.

Starters are some of the most "un-exciting" fermentations ever.

rsz_yeast_starter_chilled_001.jpg


That one is cold crashed, but even if it is a t room temp, you should see the sediment in the bottom. I use a stirplate, but usually stop it a few hours early to let it settle.

As to yeast viability;

Bobby M recently did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes. I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

Same with jarred yeast.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about yeast viability....

we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is waht you are doing when you make a starter.....
 
the starter is the only way to know for sure.One thing i do when i get my yeast,after smacking it i put the packet on a counter and walk my fingers
up then down the packet to make sure the nutrient bag is opened inside.

I just tried this method. I was able to locate the faint outline of the inner package... DEFINATELY popped...
 
try to proof it!

I'm sure I will end up trying a starter, but the guys at my LHBS are decent guys and I think I will mention it to them first. I'm sure they will say "Do a starter, and if you get nothing, then come on in." I read Revvy's post on your thread: Unless you bought your yeast by mail in the heat of summer... I know for a fact that my LHBS gets theirs shipped in by UPS. Also it was manufactured in August.

I understand and agree with what Revvy is saying. But, I paid good money for a good viable product. I shouldn't have to literally "brew like a monk" and ressurect my yeast.
 
I'm sure I will end up trying a starter, but the guys at my LHBS are decent guys and I think I will mention it to them first. I'm sure they will say "Do a starter, and if you get nothing, then come on in." I read Revvy's post on your thread: Unless you bought your yeast by mail in the heat of summer... I know for a fact that my LHBS gets theirs shipped in by UPS. Also it was manufactured in August.

I understand and agree with what Revvy is saying. But, I paid good money for a good viable product. I shouldn't have to literally "brew like a monk" and ressurect my yeast.

I agree.I had mine shipped from nb fedx with a COLD PAC!
If your vendor will take it back i would exchange it.I will try the starter
because for me to get another packet would be 3-5 days.
 
I'm talking about you getting YOURS in the heat of summer. I'm sure that in a bulk order from a supplier to a lhbs, they take the utmost care in protecting their shipments to their clients, more than likely in large cooler boxes with plenty of chill packs, their reputation is at stake. The yeast lab is going to be a pro at shipping out their protect in a way that insures that UPS doesn't f it up.
 
Some shops say they will replace yeast if it fails to work, so call them up and see what they say. I have been sent a brand new Better bottle (for free) because of damage. If they can do that, I imagine they could do the same for defective yeast.
 
Random question but is it possbile that certain yeast strains just do not swell the pack as much or as fast? I just pitched a wyeast - ringwood ale yeast that hardly swelled the pack if at all. The next morning it was going nuts however.
 
I really like Wyeast and have used many of the different yeasts that they offer. Just about every package of Wyeast that I have used has swelled up like the Hindenberg. The exception was a packet of PacMan that was frozen in transit (sat on the Fed Ex truck in -20F for 2 days) but it was fine after I added it to starter. My method is to take the pack from the keg freezer, and smack the pack 48 hours prior to when I am going to brew. After a few hours at room temp shake the pack about 40-50 times. Repeat this 1-2 more times (40-50 shakes) and it should be swelled up. I then prepare the starter and add the Wyeast to it. Montanaandy
 
Random question but is it possbile that certain yeast strains just do not swell the pack as much or as fast? I just pitched a wyeast - ringwood ale yeast that hardly swelled the pack if at all. The next morning it was going nuts however.

This is really the point of my original post.... I was just really unclear as to what I was asking... "Is this typical of a belgian abbey strain." It has now been 36 hours since I popped the inner pack. I think there is a possibility that I have a minute amount of swelling... Not sure. At any rate, My LHBS opens at 9:00 tomorrow. They are a top notch operation and I'm sure they will be straight with me.
 
Ok, here's an update. Been 48 hours since smacking the pack. There is a small amount of expansion now. Spoke with the LHBS, and before I said anything as to the strain, the owner asked, "Is it a Belgian?" Apparently this is either typical of the strain or typical of the supply they had.
 
I bought some Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II from my LHBS on Wednesday. I put it in the fridge when I got home and then first thing on Thursday morning I found the inner pack and smacked the package. I ensured I popped the inner pack. Then I shook the package and placed it on the counter (air temp 70f). Well 5 hours later I had no swelling whatsoever. I realized the package was 4 months old so I figured I would give it 24 hours. As of today, still nothing, not even a hint of swelling. What do you think? Take it back to LHBS?

I am bummed I wasn't able to get any of the Yorkshire yeast to grow.

In 4 or 5 years of trying live yeast I have yet to make a successful batch of beer. I have bad luck with the live yeast. So far I've tried a total of 4 white labs vials and not a single one has shown any activity on making starters... I've had several Wyeast smack packs not balloon up. I am probably just stupid with live yeast. I could be overly clean about things.... you know autoclaving my flasks and wort, etc. before pitching directly from the packages. Maybe storing them in a fridge dedicated exclusively to yeast at 38F is a bad idea. Maybe ordering yeast online and from the LHBS is a bad idea.



Now with dry yeast.... I've had nothing but success for about 14 years straight. This really bothers me. Since the dry yeast options are drying up so to speak. I have a whole crew of guys I know who brew around here who have the same complaints. They also have given up on the live yeast. (Although I refuse to give up and have decided to keep on wasting my money) Whatever happened to Wyeast dry yeast packs?

The Notty yeast is really slow and I don't like that -- I often find it takes about 4 or 5 weeks at 68F to do its job.
 
I am bummed I wasn't able to get any of the Yorkshire yeast to grow.

In 4 or 5 years of trying live yeast I have yet to make a successful batch of beer. I have bad luck with the live yeast. So far I've tried a total of 4 white labs vials and not a single one has shown any activity on making starters... I've had several Wyeast smack packs not balloon up. I am probably just stupid with live yeast. I could be overly clean about things.... you know autoclaving my flasks and wort, etc. before pitching directly from the packages. Maybe storing them in a fridge dedicated exclusively to yeast at 38F is a bad idea. Maybe ordering yeast online and from the LHBS is a bad idea.

Or more than likely your looking ofr "activity" when there is very little to be found and perhaps not waiting long enough....I don't believe you are dealing with bad yeast...just operator error.

And gang You don't need to wait for a smack pack to inflate to make a starter. The stuff in there is just a little bit of yeast food to help wake them up...the inflation is the co2 produced by them eating it...it's like a tiny starter, but not enough to make the yeast pitchable, just enough to get them out of the cold dormancy they have been in...

It's similar to the liquid medium in the tubes of white labs...when you shake them and open them up they gush becasue there is co2 built up in there.

But you can just as easily break the inner tuby thing, give it a shake to mix it with the nutrient and dump it into a starter....you can skip the whole waiting for it to expand part, and get right to the reproduction step inside the starter.


Read this gang!!!

From the Wyeast FAQ website:

3. Does the package need to be fully swollen before pitching?

No, The package can be pitched before activating, or at anytime during the activation process. The activation process "jump starts" the culture's metabolism, minimizing the lag phase.

Is that clear enough for you???? :D

That's all it is really about minimizing the lag phase.....but if you plan ahead then you don't worry about lag time...
 
And gang You don't need to wait for a smack pack to inflate to make a starter. The stuff in there is just a little bit of yeast food to help wake them up...the inflation is the co2 produced by them eating it...it's like a tiny starter, but not enough to make the yeast pitchable, just enough to get them out of the cold dormancy they have been in...

Confirmed...
 
Ok... Revvy is an evil witch doctor... I thought this yeast was dead two days ago...
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Ok... Revvy is an evil witch doctor... I thought this yeast was dead two days ago...
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Oh ye of little faith....;)

Like I said if they can live 45 million years in amber and have beer made with them, your little smack pack was perfectly fine.

Glad it worked out. :D
 
I have used 2 year old wyeast smack packs for killer beers.
I have used the cheapest, oldest and covered in funk White Labs tubes from the LHBS.
Make a starter.
Everytime.

It will work.

Unless it's Cry Havoc. It'll work...but sloooooooooow. ;)
 
Well, I am officially a convert. I don't think I will ever brew without a starter again!
 
Even better, how bout you will never brew without WORRYING again. :D

That might be asking a bit too much at this point in my brewing career! :D I'll still worry like a new mom... but now I have a little bit more experience for the next batch!
 
Well.... it seems I have a successful starter.

I pitched two vials of WLP037 Yorkshire into a 2 litre flask on Saturday. I let it sit at 70F until lastnight (Monday) when put it in my chiller at 40F. It took about 12 hours before I saw even the tiniest bubbles. This yeast smells exactly like I expected it too; that is, a basket of fruit. There's not too much yeast on the bottom. I will reach in with an innoculation needle and see if I can grow some colonies in the petri dishes for slanting.

I would have already brewed but by some funk, I lost my back-up hydrometer and test jar, pH meter and associated solutions, and an aeration stone.
 
You're not a real brewer until you can say you've woken up only to be greeted with this sight at least once :) Welcome to the club!

Looks like a five gallon carboy?
Anytime i use a5 gal. i feel a blowoff tube is needed to aviod a mess
 
Looks like a five gallon carboy?
Anytime i use a5 gal. i feel a blowoff tube is needed to aviod a mess

Nope that was actually a 6 gallon carboy. The batch was at most 5.25 gallons too. In the pic you can see three layers. The lower dark layer is obviously the wort. The center layer was the Krausen. The top layer just suddenly and violently appeared right before erupting.
 
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