Carbonating A Keg Without A Guage

Hi there,

I'm new to the forum and to the whole thing. I have just started my first brew. I am planning on a two-stage fermentation and then kegging it.

I have read a lot of the excellent info on here about using CO2 to carbonate the beer in the keg but I have just a basic plastic keg with a valve on the top and a canister of CO2 and so have no way of knowing what psi I have in there. Am I better off priming with sugar or just guessing at it with the CO2 canister to carbonate my beer?

Thanks in advance for any help.

crank it up to 25 shake it let it sit a minute you will hear the co2 transfere the repeat. there is a posting somewhere on BrewBoard -> Beer FAQ. a few beers into it right now cant find it.

he will not know where 25psi is without a gauge.....

I would say to prime, and use the low pressure co2 to dispense.

what kind of keg do you have that is plastic?? can it handle the higher (30psi) pressure most people use to force carb??

You should be able to run CO2 from the cartridge at a constant pressure if not serving. Because of this, you can "technically" force carb using the 8 gram cartridge. It would take around a week or so in the fridge to carb up correctly as your regulator is probably only set to 12-15 psi for serving. You can also naturally carb the beer by adding priming sugar if you want.

Here's a link to the "Tap-a-draft" system at MoreBeer. There's instructions regarding carbing towards the bottom. Not sure if you have this exact system, but they should work kind of the same way.

You need a regulator (most of them have a pressure gauge attached to one port). DO NOT connect the keg directly to the CO2 bottle without a regulator. It will fail spectacularly.

Brewirfw, my bad on that, though he had a regulator. Should have read! I remember hearing corny's release valve is somewhere around 35psi. Get a regulator would be your best bet. Look at used resteraunt stores. They sometimes will cut you a deal, cause you are not stocking a store.

I used to use those plastic kegs and they worked well for English style bitters which have very low carbonation rates. Mine used a small cartridge (about 12 - 16 grams) as opposed to a CO2 tank. As Yuri said, don't try connecting a tank to the barrel without a regulator, but the little cartridges are fine. I believe there was a built in regulator in the keg that could handle the low pressure generated by the cartridge, but it couldn't handle the pressure from a full size tank.
As for force carbonating with the cartridges, don't even think about it. First, they don't generate enough pressure, and even if they did, it would cost you a small fortune to inject enough CO2 into each keg. Priming works just fine.

-a.

Hi

Thanks for all you responses. AJF, you're right, it is just cartridge and a simple plastic keg from the LHBS, but then I am looking to brew English style bitters.

I will prime with sugar. Does it matter what type of sugar?

Presumably then the blasts of CO2 that I will squirt into the barrel as I empty it will just keep the beer better by keeping out the O2 and help force the beer out under a bit of pressure? Is that what it's for?

Thanks

Yuri_Rage said:

It will fail spectacularly.

Click to expand...

Spectacular indeed. I'd like to watch.

Yuri_Rage said:

It will fail spectacularly.

Click to expand...

In my experiance with high pressures and plastic containers
spectacular = violent

You don't need a regulator. Cut the pressure hose that leads from the gas to the opening of the keg and insert a T piece. Hook a hose up to the T piece and then connect that to a boost gauge.

well he still needs something to knock it down from ~1500psi.

IPeeAle said:

I will prime with sugar. Does it matter what type of sugar?

Presumably then the blasts of CO2 that I will squirt into the barrel as I empty it will just keep the beer better by keeping out the O2 and help force the beer out under a bit of pressure? Is that what it's for?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Corn sugar (dextrose) is most commonly used to prime with but table sugar works just as well. Just be sure to use an appropriate amount of whatever you use, it's not always the same amount between different sugars.

You've got it right on the CO2 cartridge.

ifishsum said:

Corn sugar (dextrose) is most commonly used to prime with but table sugar works just as well. Just be sure to use an appropriate amount of whatever you use, it's not always the same amount between different sugars.

You've got it right on the CO2 cartridge.

Click to expand...

Exactly,
For the amount of sugar to use, google carbonation calculator. FWIW, I always use granulated sugar.

-a.

This thread needs way more detail.

What is this plastic container? Are we talking about a Mr. Beer here or a true pressure vessel? What is this "valve" on top opf the keg? Is it a quick disconnect post? Sanke valve? What kind of CO2 "canister"? Paint ball tank? 12 gram cartridge? Industrial 5# tank?

More info pls!

z987k said:

well he still needs something to knock it down from ~1500psi.

Click to expand...

The pressure system on my keg is from a sodastream, so if you've ever used a sodastream you'll get the picture.

JKoravos said:

This thread needs way more detail.

What is this plastic container? Are we talking about a Mr. Beer here or a true pressure vessel? What is this "valve" on top opf the keg? Is it a quick disconnect post? Sanke valve? What kind of CO2 "canister"? Paint ball tank? 12 gram cartridge? Industrial 5# tank?

More info pls!

Click to expand...

See Young's Brew Pressure Barrel 5 Gallon at Wilkinson Plus for the general idea.

They come with an adapter for a small CO2 cartridge. Mine were 8 grams Soda King cartridges. The spigot at the bottom was connected by a plastic tube to a float so the beer was drawn off the top instead of the bottom, and gravity instead of CO2 pressure did the moving, and you got clear beer right from the outset. I still think they great for traditional draft English beers.

-a.

Right again AJF. The canister is just like a sodastream one and the valve in the top of the keg, well, it's just a valve and the guy in the HBS said just to screw it on quickly, listen for the squirt and then unscrew it. Not very scientific but should have the desired affect.

I don't have the fancy floating system tho, just a straight tap. And I paid £30 for mine! Heh ho, live and learn.

Seeing as you've all been so kind, perhaps I could ask another question. (Or should I start a new thread?)

I'm just about to rack mine into a secondary using another fermentation bin. This one has no hole for an airlock on it. It's 9 days in and so there's not a lot of bubbles coming through, maybe 1 every 2-3 minutes. Will I be OK just putting the lid on the second bin once I've racked it and keeping an eye on it, releasing the pressure a bit if the lid starts bulging?

Also, I'm planning on dry-hopping with the little hop 'teabag' that comes in the Brupaks kit I'm using. Do I just throw that right in or should I put it in some boiling water first? Also I'm not planning on weighing it down (cos I can't work out how as the bag is sealed) does that matter much?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks again.

I don't know what to advise here. I've never done a secondary in anything other than a carboy. I would have suggested forgetting the secondary until you said you were dry hopping, and I've only ever dry hopped in the secondary. Then you say you were going to use a hop teabag. I've never used one.
FWIW, I wouldn't like to rack into a secondary that had a large amount of headspace because of the risk of oxidation. I also wouldn't like to use anything for a secondary without an airlock. Although you should get very little fermentation in the secondary, you will probably get a considerable amount of off-gassing during and shortly after the racking. This could cause some major problems in a sealed system (especially if you don't have much head space).
I would be inclined to either dry hop in the primary, or rack to the keg, and dry hop there, but as I said, I have no experience of either.
I would definitely boil the hop bag before using it, but with the antiseptic properties of hops and alcohol, this may well be totally unnecessary.

-a.

AJF, thanks for you suggestions, however.....
...I had done all of those things before I read your reply.

I now have my beer in a fermentation bin that I am using as the secondary.

There certainly doesn't seem to be any problem with there being too much gas! I had half expected the lid, which is sealed with no air-lock, to start bulging upwards and was thinking that i could just ease out a little air/CO2 every now and then. But it's still looking just the way it was when I put it in with the lid quite concaved. Which would suggest that there is very little fermentation taking place, but then that is to be expected.

Also this fermentation bin is pretty tough to see through and so I can't really see what's going on. I really want to open it up and have a look but I don't want to risk introducing any more air to the beer.

Presumably I just be patient and ignore it? Nothing seems to be happening but then I don't think I would expect anything to really 'happen' at this stage would I?

The temperature here has fallen quite a bit lately and the brew is in the garage, does the temperature at this stage matter so much?

Thanks