curious to hear your beer selections for my food establishment

hello everyone,

as a home brewer i'm curious to hear your input on this one. I am opening a food establishment here in new york and would like to hear your choices for 6 beers that i may serve. here are the rules: i need to come up with a list of (16) beers.

In the end chosen (2) will be domestic, and the other (4) will be imported. a total of 6 on tap.

Taste will always be subjective but I would like to hear the selections you home brewers choose to be the satisfying median between the "mainstream" and "beer enthusiast" taste.

I would like to mention this establishment is on the mainstream side of food industry and most people that will be dining here WILL NOT initially expect beer to be served at a place like this.

demographics wise, i am here in new york city. in terms of food pairing, think burgers and fries. last but not least, these beers must come from fully licensed companies and distributors that we are able to negotiate with.

believe me if it did not matter, i would love to serve home brew but that is not reality at this point.

thank you for your input!

I'll have to give it some thought. But, right off the bat, I think 2 domestic/4 imported is an antiquated way of looking at beer. Imported no longer means highest quality. American craft breweries are making some of the best beer in the world right now.

I kind of agree with tagz. Unless you're set on having imports, I'd skip that selection. Then you could decide whether you want all micros or 2 macro/4 micros. You also want to think about whether you want to keep it fairly local or allow micros from across the country.

Maybe something like:

Guinness
Bass Pale Ale
Sam Adams Boston Lager
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
Miller
Miller Light

That gives you a fairly broad range of coverage for your mainstream customers.

Totally agree with differentiating from craft and import.

As for selections of beer at different types of food establishments, I was just having a long discussion with a friend about this very thing.

Conservative approach, I think you have to have two macros to be safe, Miller would be my preference. From there I would find a local that is readily available from a distributor and that the locals are passionate about, not being from New York I think Brooklyn but I imagine there are plenty. I would always have their most popular on tap and then rotate something seasonal. As for the last two, I agree that Sam, Bass, Sierra Nevada, all of those do really well.

Personally if it were me and I really felt that people weren't going to be expecting beer, I would think you can't go wrong with going big, people coming for food aren't expecting much anyways and as for the beer drinkers, well we have a tendency to find good beer where ever it may be. Take for example the Friday's near my house, personally I think the food is bland and gimmicky, and I've always expected the beer selection to be the same. But they now have a great selection, Bells, Avery, some great locals, and many others, and they are always bringing in new stuff. And the best part for them is that while I come for the beer I always order some food, whether I eat any of it or not I still have to pay for it.

Do what you want, you know your market, or at least I hope you do if your opening a business. One last thing I will say is that if you do go with any craft beers, local or otherwise, either make sure who every is taking orders is knowledgeable about them or you have a beer list. Doesn't hurt to have both. There is nothing more imitating than a dumb waiter or waitress trying to spout off a list of beers they know nothing about and then expecting me to make a decision when I'm not sure she even gave me the complete list. If you have six it shouldn't be a problem but if there is a seasonal make sure they mention it when it changes.

ray718 said:

believe me if it did not matter, i would love to serve home brew but that is not reality at this point.

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It's never a reality, it's ILLEGAL to sell homebrew. And you as a bar owner if you did could even possibly lose your liquor license. But for homerewers any medium of exchange for our HOBBY is illegal.

Where in NYC is this place going to be? That makes a HUGE difference in what you are going to want to have on tap to be profitable.

There are some great breweries in New York, Ommegang for one.

if you have great beer people will be surprised by your (hopefully) great beer selection, if they come for the great beer selection then they should be excited about your food.

could you post some of your menu items?
that could help us give you ideas on what kind of beers to serve

as those before me said: unless you want to bring in a specific import , like muchich helles which is a nice clean lager which i think goes great with fish/seafood, focus more on finding great tasting beer that matches your menu and make that part of your angle.

My selections:

A lager
two lighter bodied ales
A good stout
A porter
two IPAs
a regularly changed seasonal/special


Munich Helles- or another nice lager
Ommegang Hennepin
Founders Breakfast Stout
Stone Arrogant Bastard
New Belgium Brewing - Fat Tire
New Belgium Brewing - Hoptober(as a seasonal perhaps- its realy good i am soad to see my 12 pack getting so low)
Mile H.I.P.A
Boston Lager - I no longer drink sam adams( it is what got me into craft beer a long time ago) but its not a bad beer and lots of people like it.
New Glarus Dancing man wheat.

Partner with a local brewery, they may be able to offer you great seasonals and tastings to bring people in.

you say you want to serve homebrew( illegal) but you could always start a brewpub!

there is a great place out here that is a basically a burger joint. a higher end one. they are into the much more specialized beer list. check out their listing. the place is called TJ's. its in paoli pa.

Actually in NY he can serve the homebrew, it just has to be free. NY is VERY liberal with its handling of homebrew.

We are an "omission" state when it comes to homebrew. This means that homebrewing is legal because there is no law that says it is illegal. As such, as long as it is not being sold, one can basically do anything with it that they want. I'm involved in two homebrew events in the next 2 months that serving homebrew to the general public. I've also been to bars that had events where homebrew was on tap.

And I say this as someone who normally is on the Revvy side of the argument, and also knows a thing or two about NY's laws

Airborneguy said:

Actually in NY he can serve the homebrew, it just has to be free. NY is VERY liberal with its handling of homebrew.

We are an "omission" state when it comes to homebrew. This means that homebrewing is legal because there is no law that says it is illegal. As such, as long as it is not being sold, one can basically do anything with it that they want. I'm involved in two homebrew events in the next 2 months that serving homebrew to the general public. I've also been to bars that had events where homebrew was on tap.

And I say this as someone who normally is on the Revvy side of the argument, and also knows a thing or two about NY's laws

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Oh that's awesome!!!!!!!:rockin:

Let us in on the menu, and we can come up with good pairings. We're shootin in the dark here!

On tap, I would suggest Miller, Michelob Light, Samuel Adams Seasonal, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Guinness, and a local craft beer.

...then if possible, have some additional bottled imports available...your heineken, newcastle, MAYBE some pilsner urquell.

I would suggest looking at what other people drink rather than what you would LIKE to see other people drink....just remember, at the end of the day you are wanting to sell this stuff. If you find that your tap of craft beer is selling good, then maybe you can replace one of your more mainstream beers with another craft beer. I would start off with the most famous brands and then let your customers dictate with their wallets what beers you sell. I know this sounds boring, but you do want to be successful.

If you feel brave, forget the BMC products and the well known imports and craft beers and go with ALL local craft beers from your state or region; this would help you identify with your community.

Brooklyn brewery has a lot of good beers that aren't too extreme for the average burger joint

CidCitrus said:

Brooklyn brewery has a lot of good beers that aren't too extreme for the average burger joint

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I was thinking them as well. Talk about hightlighting a New York Connection.

I mean they've got everything for all tastes, including the BMC-ers.

Ace_Club said:

Maybe something like:

Guinness
Bass Pale Ale
Sam Adams Boston Lager
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
Miller
Miller Light

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if this was all that was all that was on tap I would skip the beer and drink water. No offense on your choices but I would rather fork over $$ for something that I don't see at every applebees bar. It is a broad range, but it's also not exciting. I also don't have much money.

remember too that bottles keep for a long time. getting in a case of westmalle tripel, chimay, Southern tier pum king, or another beer means you can have bottles in reserve and not have to worry about too many kegs hanging around. Places near me with big bottle selections charge 8-12 dollars for more exotic/rare bottles(12 ounce) and in the 6 dollar range for craft beer. A big list of beers is impressive - and they keep for a long time.

Guys, there are a couple of important things to remember:

Beer enthusiasts do not keep a restaurant open.
Most people who drink non-mainstream beer drink it because of status, not taste. If the trend is imports, you have to sell imports. If the place becomes a hipster hangout, you must have PBR, you dig?

So while it's an interesting exercise to ask us what we'd prefer to see on a beer menu, OP, it's nothing more than intellectual masturbation. The people you need to be asking are your customers - the people in your restaurant's neighborhood, etc. You need to visit other restaurants similar to yours in your market and see what they have - maybe having a faucet or two pouring a local craft brewer's product will set you apart from them. Probably not. People come to restaurants to eat, or enjoy ambience, or see and be seen; craft beer falls waaaaaaay low on the customer's priority list nine times out of ten. (That holds for brewpubs, too, which new owners ignore to their peril.)

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because it's of interest to you that your customers will give a damn. So if you offer craft beer at all, make it something simple and approachable. Brooklyn Lager, maybe an American Wheat from somewhere fresh and local like Chelsea or somewhere. Keep the other four faucets what's hot, what turns over in your market. Your job is not to educate beer consumers; your job is to keep your restaurant open and keep your family fed by making money.

Cheers,

Bob

I would go (2) mainstream BMC types, (2) Gateway or "Fashionable" brews, and (2) micro or nano revolving brews. With only 6 taps, you have to attract all different kind of beer drinkers into a farily small number of choices. You will have those who only drink BMC low on taste beers. You will have those who appreciate better tasting beer, but aren't interested in micro or nano brews. And you will have the enthusiasts that will be bored by the first 4 selections, and would appreciate some lesser known or new introductions. These 2 taps are your chance to spread the good word of renewed American craft brewing to the masses.

Maybe something like this:

1) Miller Lite
2) Maybe a regional BMC type, for MN it would be Grainbelt Premium or Leinenkugels original. Not sure what this would be in NY
3) Sam Adams Boston Lager
4) Maybe revolve an import here (Guiness, Newcastle, Stella Artois, Warsteiner, etc)
5) Revolving selection from 1 NY micro/nano brew (should not match style of #4 or #6)
6) Seasonal micro/nano brew

Also agree with poster above to keep 5-10 selections of bottled brews for added variety.

Ace_Club said:

I kind of agree with tagz. Unless you're set on having imports, I'd skip that selection. Then you could decide whether you want all micros or 2 macro/4 micros. You also want to think about whether you want to keep it fairly local or allow micros from across the country.

Maybe something like:

Guinness
Bass Pale Ale
Sam Adams Boston Lager
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
Miller
Miller Light

That gives you a fairly broad range of coverage for your mainstream customers.

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maxam said:

if this was all that was all that was on tap I would skip the beer and drink water. No offense on your choices but I would rather fork over $$ for something that I don't see at every applebees bar. It is a broad range, but it's also not exciting. I also don't have much money.

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See, I'm different. If the burger is great, and that's what I'm there for then I'd be quite ok with that list. If I know it's not a brew pub, or a craft beer joint, at least there's 4 solid beers on the list to choose from for me. Yeah sure, I'd love an ipa or some nifty craft beers, BUT if I'm out for a great burger with friends who are not beer geeks, then there's some decent mass market beers available besides the usual ONLY bud, budlight, miller, miller light, coors, coors light. I mean I remember when the iteration of mass lager and it's light counterpart was the ONLY offering in most bars, if beer was what you wanted.

Personally I would put 2 domestic, 2 micro's and 2 seasonal. I would try to use beers in your area. My favorite Brewery in NY is Southern Tier. They make some amazing beers.

I would probably go..

Domestic
1) Miller Lite/Bud Lite (i prefer miller)
2)Mich Ultra

Micro
3)Southern Tier I.P.A
4)Southern Tier Porter

Seasonal or ROtate every month
5)Southern Tier Harvest
6)Southern Tier Old Man Winter

You could also fill the "seasonal" handles with Brooklyn which makes some good beer also...I would say Brooklyn Wheat and Brooklyn Lager

This would give you two light commercial beers and a Hoppy IPA, Dark Porter, Lager and a Light Pils.

Good luck

I think you should fill your tap line with a good number of locals:
Blue Point Toasted Lager
Kelso Nut Brown
Six Point Sweet Action
Brooklyn Pennant Ale '55
And then round it off with some stuff everyone knows:
Guinness
Bud/Miller/Coors Light

Bob said:

Guys, there are a couple of important things to remember:

Beer enthusiasts do not keep a restaurant open.
Most people who drink non-mainstream beer drink it because of status, not taste. If the trend is imports, you have to sell imports. If the place becomes a hipster hangout, you must have PBR, you dig?

So while it's an interesting exercise to ask us what we'd prefer to see on a beer menu, OP, it's nothing more than intellectual masturbation. The people you need to be asking are your customers - the people in your restaurant's neighborhood, etc. You need to visit other restaurants similar to yours in your market and see what they have - maybe having a faucet or two pouring a local craft brewer's product will set you apart from them. Probably not. People come to restaurants to eat, or enjoy ambience, or see and be seen; craft beer falls waaaaaaay low on the customer's priority list nine times out of ten. (That holds for brewpubs, too, which new owners ignore to their peril.)

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because it's of interest to you that your customers will give a damn. So if you offer craft beer at all, make it something simple and approachable. Brooklyn Lager, maybe an American Wheat from somewhere fresh and local like Chelsea or somewhere. Keep the other four faucets what's hot, what turns over in your market. Your job is not to educate beer consumers; your job is to keep your restaurant open and keep your family fed by making money.

Cheers,

Bob

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The guys from my LHBS just opened a pub. Their tap list rotates as they move through the kegs of sours, oaked vanilla oatmeal stout, RIS, IIPA's. I wouldn't classify the list as simple and approachable...the list is impressive. The response has been very positive so far to both the food and the beer. If Bend, Oregon with it's mere 76k people (and many competing brew pubs) can support a pub of this nature, I'm sure NYC could too.

I'm not saying the OP should necessarily go this route, but just pointing out that there is a market for it.

as a point of reference, a local brew pub is the #1 seller (bar) of Labatt blue in the US. Macros are macros because they sell. get a couple halves of macro on tap, and as many 1/6's as you can fit of various micros. Keep an inventory of bmc's you don't have on tap in bottles, and keep a selection of micro's in bottles too. Maybe rotate one of the 1/6's throughout the year.

Mongrel said:

The guys from my LHBS just opened a pub. Their tap list rotates as they move through the kegs of sours, oaked vanilla oatmeal stout, RIS, IIPA's. I wouldn't classify the list as simple and approachable...the list is impressive. The response has been very positive so far to both the food and the beer. If Bend, Oregon with it's mere 76k people (and many competing brew pubs) can support a pub of this nature, I'm sure NYC could too.

I'm not saying the OP should necessarily go this route, but just pointing out that there is a market for it.

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I feel compelled to point out that Oregon - where, IIRC, the brewery per person of legal drinking age ratio is the highest in the nation - is very probably very far removed indeed from any other market.

Oregon has a vibrant, active, supportive craft-beer scene. There are three brewpubs in the five boros - THREE - and hell, two of the three are branches of the same company.

There have been others. They're closed. Which ought to tell you something about the difference in markets!

That said, there are quite a few good beer bars in NYC. That's cool. But it begs the question: Does it need another? How will you set yours apart from places like McSorley's or Peculier?

Cheers,

Bob

Bob said:

I feel compelled to point out that Oregon - where, IIRC, the brewery per person of legal drinking age ratio is the highest in the nation - is very probably very far removed indeed from any other market.

Oregon has a vibrant, active, supportive craft-beer scene. There are three brewpubs in the five boros - THREE - and hell, two of the three are branches of the same company.

There have been others. They're closed. Which ought to tell you something about the difference in markets!

That said, there are quite a few good beer bars in NYC. That's cool. But it begs the question: Does it need another? How will you set yours apart from places like McSorley's or Peculier?

Cheers,

Bob

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With the standard beer list, how do you set it apart from say Cozy Soup & Burger?

That's the thing - you don't, not really. It's dependent on the local market. Do people cross town to go to Cozy Soup & Burger, or is it a Broadway thing? I don't know. I thought many NYC restaurants were local, neighborhood things.

Also, by the look of Cozy's menu, actually serve beer! I see a Stella sign in the window on their website, but their online menu doesn't mention adult beverages at all.

Cheers,

Bob

We don't even know what borough he's opening up in. I think neighborhood will definitely be a factor.

One factor to be considered is what gets distributed there. Obviously you have to put up a couple macros (Miller Lite and Bud Light) but beyond that since you have so many good breweries in the area I would stay as local as possible. Maybe an Ommegang or two, Southern Tier, etc. Maybe have drink lists that refer better known craft beers to what you offer. Closer breweries might be able to hook you up with special events, special seasonals, etc. that will be mutually beneficial.

That's why the first question I asked was where is he opening this...

That said, we seem to be more interested in this than the OP.