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frascati

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I found a 5 gal plastic bottled water deliver carboy at a garage sale for a buck. It was flawless and perfectly clean. It triggered a dormant interest in some sort of brewing.

I wanted to start as simple and as rock bottom cheap as I could. The less expensive the first cup turns out to be, the more satisfied I will be with my accomplishment.

I researched recipes and just went with the simplest.
4.5 gallons reconstituted Meijer's brand apple juice. Only vitamin C added.
5 cups sugar.
1 packet champagne yeast.
1 rubber stopper and plastic bubbler trap.

The interior was spotless so I just rinsed well. Threw in two cups of pharmacy H202 and two cups tap water, swished really well, drained well.
Sanitized bubbler and stopper with H202. Drained. No rinse.
Added apple concentrate. Heated three gallons of tap water to 170F and filled carboy. Added sugar. Waited till temp dropped to 110F and pitched dry yeast. Swirled well to mix. Stoppered with bubbler.
Put in 70 degree basement.

Next morning it was bubbling away contentedly. So far so good.
Any strong objections to the novice approach so far?

I have no bottling equipment yet. As I said... just philosophically I'm hoping for some small success and coming in under the cost of bottled cider at the liquor store. I realize that If I go further with this hobby then the "sunk" capital initial investments in better equipment and ingredients will pay off. I just won't have any fun if my mediocre first attempts cost three times the price of store bought.

I'll taste "farmhouse" style when it's done. But I think I'd like it chilled and lightly carbonated.

So.... I'm anticipating going through about a couple cases of Molson Golden (best cheap beer to my taste and friends will make sure that the job of emptying them gets accomplished on time) with screw off caps. I'll sterilize the bottles and caps and then fill them for carbonation. Reusing screw off caps ought to be ok, no?

Remember... cheap and effective. Can the sugar used for carbonation stater come in the form of pear juice? And can I expect this to give it any extra flavor and sweetness? You can't add extra sugar for more sweetness (beyond what is added for carbonation alone) since the bottles will just blow up,,,, right?

How can I end up with a somewhat sweet final product or is it necessary to make that judgment before starting the whole process?

Thanks very much. Hope this isn't an inappropriate first post. I have read quite a bit before I got started. But the above questions don't seem to be directly answered in the information I found so far.
 
110* is pretty hot to pitch yeast. There are a few red wine strains that like to ferment at blood-warm temps, but most wine yeast (champagne included) will ferment more cleanly at lower temperatures.

At higher temps, yeast throw off flavors like acetone or solvent, and higher alcohols that give you a heck of a headache/hangover the next day.

As for making sweet cider, that's a huge PITA. Your homemade cider probably won't taste anything at all like Woodchucks etc. I personally really like homemade dry cider and can't stand Woodchucks. You could try mixing it with fresh apple juice, put it in 2L soda bottles, and drink it really fast before it got overcarbonated.

You can use plain table sugar to carbonate drinks, and that'd be cheaper than pear juice.
 
It's difficult to have a sweet carbonated cider. You can either stabilise, backsweeten and keg or you can pasteurise (there is a sticky on this at the top of the forum). If you're going to prime with pear juice there probably won't be any residual taste.
 
A couple things I noticed:
1) You didn't use any type of yeast nutrient. I didn't either my first time and it got stuck fairly quickly. You can add a handful of raisins at any point to give yeast more of the nutrients they need.

2)To get your cider sweet, there's a couple things you can try:

Cold crashing- Yeast won't ferment at low temps, so if you leave it sweet or back sweeten with sugar, then stick it in the fridge and leave it there until it is served, it will stay sweet.

Chemicals-I back sweeten with store bought juice that has preservatives in it, to hopefully slow down and prevent new fermentation. I'm not sure how effective this actually is, as I usually cold crash also

Sweeten or Back sweeten with a non-fermentable sugar- you can use something like spenda or lactose to add sweetness, and these sugars will not ferment. You can look at other threads on this site to see how successful other people have been with this. If you want to carbonate this is really your best and probably only option.

Good Luck!
 
Guess I really only scratched the surface of this when reading up.
Yeast nutrients? Can I assume that the raisings must be boiled to 170 degrees for five minutes or so for at least a minimum of sanitization?

Seems like just tossing in a handful 1/4 of the way into the fermentation process would just negate all the care taken to sterilize the equipment beforehand.

I'll give it a try though as soon as any of this is confirmed.

I'm thinking that I'll just quaff this batch uncarbonated and sweetened a bit with added pear juice before consuming.
 
I think that you will be fine. I find that yeast nutrient gets the process kicked off faster and with less rhino farts. If your batch is bubbling nicely I say leave it be. I too have just began to brew starting about 2 months ago. So far I've had four really good batches, a couple of "meh" batches, and 1 that was just vile. Cinnamon, 2 lbs sugar, and hops make for a horrible combo. LOL
 
I think with raisins, and with your method, I really don't think you have a huge risk of contamination. If you have a Home brew store around you, you can buy small amounts of actual nutrient for like 1-2 dollars. I wouldn't worry about it unless it gets stuck. Its more for insurance than a necessity.
 
Don't worry about it, it will be fine. Probably will not need any nutrient, I've never added any, and never had a problem. I'd just drink it dry, and forget about sweetening it.

A couple of comments for your next try:

Do not add 170 F water to the concentrate. You can potentially set pectins, and get a cloudy cider that will never clear. It will taste OK, but will be cloudy.

I use water straight out the tap. I do have a carbon filter in the house to take out chlorine.

1 cup of sugar (8 ozs) per gallon is quite a lot. You probably have around 1.070 for an OG. If it finishes around 0.996, you will have 9.5% abv. It may take a while to mellow. I usually limit my sugar addition to about 4 ozs per gallon to get an OG of 1.060 (about 8% abv).

Use an ale yeast rather than a wine yeast (example Nottingham, S-05, S-04). Ale yeasts seem to leave a little more flavor, and not dry it out as much.

110 F is too high to pitch yeast. Room temperature is better.

Screw top bottles are not recommended. I think they are weaker around the neck and harder to get a good seal.
 
Wow, thank you guys very much. Lots of good info. I'll just leave it be. It's bubbling along quite nicely right now. The ale yeast sounds like a good direction to head in. I"m more fond of sweet and full bodied wines than dry thin ones. Not very snobbish of me, but I know what I like. I'd like a nice rich, sweet, full bodied cider with about 6 percent alcohol and a hint of carbonation eventually. Hopefully I'll learn enough before starting the next five gallons to get closer to something really rewarding.

When you recommend against 170 degree water, what do you suggest? 170 degrees and then let it cool before adding? Or is the whole sterilization push a little over emphasized? All the tutorials I read stressed clean, clean, clean. Some even suggested that 170 was insufficient and pressure sanitizing was necessary. Bottled distilled water is expensive enough to take too much of the satisfaction out of diy'ing this stuff. Is filtered tap water just fine?

What time frame should I expect given the description of this batch? About three weeks? Guess I'll just lay low for a bit until it stops bubbling. I'll be back to report on what happens. I'm kind of excited about this. Mom 'n Dad brewed quite a lot when we were kids (30 years ago) and it became a completely lost art. They did wine, beer, and even spirits with a little copper tubed still in a coffee can full of ice. It's amazing how a whiff of the process bubbling out of the plastic trap brings back a flood of memories.
 
the longer you hold on to the cider, the better it seems to get. also, if its your first batch, it will probably end up tasting like white wine (dry, thin, likely not what you listed above.). also, did you say that you sanitized with diluted hydrogen peroxide? is that suitable for sanitizing purposes?
 
I'd found a few references to H2O2 for use as a sanitizer. Of all of them it made the most sense to me as a 'no rinse' option. It is, after all, simply oxygenated water and used medicinally - mouthwash, ear rinse, wound antiseptic, etc, - so there would seem to be little to fear from any small residue consumed. The extra oxygen simply 'burns' bacteria (basically 'bleaching' by other means).

I'm no chemist, but given the simplicity of H2O2 structurally, it seems that the process of fermentation in beer/wine making would rend its original bonds absolutely in pretty short order especially given the tiny amount that's left after draining.

Bleach or commercial sanitizers may be more effective, but peroxide will probably get you 99 percent there. I diluted it in half since 50 percent dilution at the already extreme dilution you're given with an over the counter pharmacy brand isn't making a lot of difference and I just wanted it to be sure to have enough solution to swish well the interior of the carboy. The bung and the plastic bubbler were rinsed well with pure (3 percent) H2O2.

I did read others insisting on 'food grade H2O2, and the section I listed below suggests that over the counter pharmacy stuff (3 percent) has some added compounds not intended for consumption. I'm not worried about this first batch of mine. I certainly not worried about "consumption" of any parts per million of those compounds that might find their way into the final product. Pharmacy peroxide is used as a mouthwash by some, spat back out, and some PPM residual of these compounds is being regularly 'consumed' by a lot of folks out there. But I am a little concerned with how they might affect the fermentation process. So rather than go through the trouble of researching and/or confirming what is or is not included in my pharmacy brand peroxide, I'll just go ahead and obtain some "food grade" for future use.

Grades of Hydrogen Peroxide
Hydrogen peroxide is available in various strengths and grades.

A) 3.5% Pharmaceutical Grade: This is the grade sold at your local drugstore or supermarket. This product is not recommended for internal use. It contains an assortment of stabilizers which shouldn't be ingested. Various stabilizers include: acetanilide, phenol, sodium stanate and tertrasodium phosphate.

B) 6% Beautician Grade: This is used in beauty shops to color hair and is not recommended for internal use.

C) 30% Reagent Grade: This is used for various scientific experimentation and also contains stabilizers. It is also not for internal use.

D) 30% to 32% Electronic Grade: This is used to clean electronic parts and not for internal use.

E) 35% Technical Grade: This is a more concentrated product than the Reagent Grade and differs slightly in that phosphorus is added to help neutralize any chlorine from the water used to dilute it.

F) 35% Food Grade: This is used in the production of foods like cheese, eggs, and whey-containing products. It is also sprayed on the foil lining of aseptic packages containing fruit juices and milk products. THIS IS THE ONLY GRADE RECOMMENDED FOR INTERNAL USE. It is available in pints, quarts, gallons or even drums. Various suppliers are mentioned later in this article.

G) 90%: This is used as an oxygen source for rocket fuel.

Only 35% Food Grade hydrogen peroxide is recommended for internal use. At this concentration, however, hydrogen peroxide is a very strong oxidizer and if not diluted, it can be extremely dangerous or even fatal. Any concentrations over 10% can cause neurological reactions and damage to the upper gastrointestinal tract. There have been two known fatalities in children who ingested 27% and 40% concentrations of H202. Recently, a 26 month old female swallowed one mouthful of 35% H202. She immediately began vomiting, followed by fainting and respiratory arrest. Fortunately, she was under emergency room care and although she experienced erosion and bleeding of the stomach and esophagus, she survived the incident. When she was re-examined 12 days later, the areas involved had healed (J Toxicol Clin Toxicol 90;28(1):95-100).

35% Food Grade H202 must be

1) handled carefully (direct contact will burn the skin--immediate flushing with water is recommended).

2) diluted properly before use. 3) stored safely and properly (after making a dilution the remainder should be stored tightly sealed in the freezer).

One of the most convenient methods of dispensing 35% H202 is from a small glass eye dropper bottle. These can be purchased at your local drugstore. Fill this with the 35% H202 and store the larger container in the freezer compartment of your refrigerator until more is needed. Store the eye dropper bottle in the refrigerator. The generally recommended dosage is outlined in the chart below. The drops are mixed with either 6 to 8 ounces of distilled water, juice, milk or even aloe vera juice or gel. (Don't use chlorinated tap water to dilute the peroxide!)
Click to expand...
 
Cripes, be careful with that dude. This stuff is going in your body after all.

You can sanitize by just pouring boiling water over anything you want...I would stick with the classics, at least whilst you're getting started!
 
How about an diluted iodine solution in a spray bottle? No rinse and it seems a bit safer than food grade H2O2.
 
frascati said:
When you recommend against 170 degree water, what do you suggest? 170 degrees and then let it cool before adding? Or is the whole sterilization push a little over emphasized? All the tutorials I read stressed clean, clean, clean. Some even suggested that 170 was insufficient and pressure sanitizing was necessary. Bottled distilled water is expensive enough to take too much of the satisfaction out of diy'ing this stuff. Is filtered tap water just fine?

What time frame should I expect given the description of this batch? About three weeks? Guess I'll just lay low for a bit until it stops bubbling. I'll be back to report on what happens. I'm kind of excited about this. Mom 'n Dad brewed quite a lot when we were kids (30 years ago) and it became a completely lost art. They did wine, beer, and even spirits with a little copper tubed still in a coffee can full of ice. It's amazing how a whiff of the process bubbling out of the plastic trap brings back a flood of memories.
Click to expand...

170F is a perfectly acceptable temperature for sanitizing the water, but as Calder pointed out, it can cause pectins to set and create a haze. This is <i>mostly</i> a cosmetic concern, but if you want to go the sparkling route you probably want to see the bubbles. I'd just let it cool to down to around 150F if you're using concentrate. I use pasteurized juice so I don't really worry about re-sanitizing it in the pot.
Then, let it cool down even more. Your yeast package should tell you it's temp range; pitch within it. If you want to pitch at the high end of the range to get things going, that's fine, but try to ferment toward the bottom.
If your tap water tastes fine it probably is. I usually use charcoal pitcher-filtered water and bring it to a boil. I hate distilled water; it doesn't extract as much flavor in stocks so I've never bothered with it when brewing.
I use H2O2 in my work kitchen for clean and dried prep surfaces, but Iodophor for brewing. I've only used bleach when brewing once, but that requires a rinse which re-introduces a lot of variables. Plus I'm told it leaves a cidery taste to the brew, but since I've only used it on a cider... :rolleyes:
Three weeks sounds about right assuming you're just using a primary. Waiting until the bubbling stops, using a hydrometer is better.
 
Ive got a hydrometer. I was concerned that If I hadn't measured the original SG at the beginning of ferment (i forgot to) that I'd never get an accurate measure at the end. True?

I'm not concerned about the haze. I might actually prefer a bit of opacity in the end.
 
Frascati - I am eagerly awaiting your outcome!

I'm on my first batch.

I did an "oops" and put 2 lbs of brown sugar in to a gallon of sam's brand apple juice, though. SG was 1.23 LOL.

I some how managed to calculate that 3lbs of honey to 5 gallons = 2 lbs of brown sugar to 1 gallon. :\ (is this a great first post, or what?)

I only made a gallon of that - and wife likes it REALLY sweet, so we shall see. Plan on racking to 2nd at 1.10 or to taste below (~1.06ish?), and then letting it sit for a while in a couple big swing-top growlers.

I'm sure it will be like drinking children's benadryl - both from a taste and for effect.
 
weejub: What yeast did you use? That will help determine at what point it will crap out on you (how sweet it will end up). 1.060 is ridiculously sweet, I'd shoot for more in the 1.015-1.020 range. Did you use any nutrients? That also plays a role in how far the yeast will take it.

If I were you I'd leave it in primary for at least a few weeks, then when the SG has stopped dropping, rack it to secondary to get it off the yeast. You've got a strong "apple wine" in the making, so it may take quite a bit of aging to be decent. After it's been sitting around for a while, you can decide if you need to sweeten it up a little or not.

My .02
 
As long as you're using the recommended dosage, adding it a day into fermentation is fine. You can also shake/stir it up until the 1/3 sugar break (about 1.080 for you). That will help the yeasties do their job. I wouldn't be surprised if it stops short of dry with that high of an OG nomatter what you do.
 
I'd be careful with any concentration of H2O2 beyond what you get in the drug store. Back in the day I used to handle reagent grade H2O2 at work. It will literally char wood and could potentially start a fire if spilled on a flammable surface. However, it did start me to wondering if it could be used to rejuvenate oak barrels?
 
Sure. The physical danger is a concern, but not really its chemical toxicity

Hydrogen Peroxide is a is a strong oxidizing agent and a weak acid in water solution. The formula is similar to that of water, with an extra atom of oxygen attached, H2O2. It is completely soluble in water. Pure anhydrous hydrogen peroxide is a colorless to pale blue syrupy liquid which decomposes violently into water and oxygen if heated above 80 C. it also decomposes in light and in the presence of metal ions or oxidizable organic materials. A small amount of stabilizer such as acetanilide is added to the solutions to retard the decomposition. One volume of hydrogen peroxide releases ten volumes of oxygen when it decomposes. It is commercially prepared by electrolysis of ammonium bisulfate or potassium bisulfate with sulfuric acid. Catalytic oxidation of hydrogen and water with oxygen using nickel, palladium, or platinum with an anthraquinone, reaction of barium peroxide with sulfuric acid and by oxidation of isopropanol with acetone are also industrial processes for the production of hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxides are marketed in concentration of 3-90% by wt as a solution in water. The most valuable property of hydrogen peroxide is that it breaks down into water and oxygen and therefore does not form any persistent, toxic residual compounds. It is used in the processes of epoxidation, oxidation, hydroxylation and reduction. Its oxidizing properties are used in the bleachings and deodorizing for textile, hair and in paper manufacture. It is also used medicinally as an antiseptic. Its application involves the production of chemicals, e.g. organic peroxides, perhydrates. It is also used in water and sewage treatment, mining, electronics, food and cosmetic indutry.
Click to expand...

So I'd handle it with such caution as I would strong acid, open flame, high voltage, or any stored energy for that matter like compressed springs or air. It'll either hurt you, or not... but you'll know one way or the other and you are in almost complete control of the odds for harm (unlike, say, working with lead, asbestos, mercury, radioactivity, pcbs, most of the ingredients in your brake cleaner, or just about any chemical compound more complex than H2O2 for that matter.

acetanilide is added to the solutions to retard the decomposition
Click to expand...

That's the part that might concern me for any residue that remains in the fermenting process. It's likely to be so small at that point to be negligible but being rid of it is a good enough reason to have 'food grade' on hand in the future.


Anyway, hope this thread might contribute in some way to the knowledge base should anyone search "hydrogen peroxide" for brewing sanitation in the future. I may soon discover myself that it's far inferior, and no more 'safe' to use than many commercial brewing products. And I'll come back here and report that if I do.

And even if only one person reading here is unfamiliar with the folowing... then it's worth posting again.....

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
 
When i first started brewing, i made cider myself (from apples and pears from our and neghbours gardens) i had a load of handed down equipment from grandparents and parents, and thus had no sanitizer so i used salt i simply added a generous amont to hot water swilled and rinsed WELL after. Didnt have any problems and made a good 10 gallons all in 1 gallon cintainers.
I also used allisn bread yeast which i have used alot when trying to make cheap test batches and have always found it very palatable, i was having a chat with the owner of my local homebrew store and he said he finds that usually it wont work with bread yeast but occasionally you'll find the extremely rare case where there is a yeast that is good, so i would never try anything but "Alison bread yeast", just a tip if your going for the cost saving approach :)

Also you can pick up grolshe style bottles fairly cheao with grolche in or from ebay they are safer and i think look better also you save on the lids being replaced.
If not try a local bar where i work we throw them in a skip and would have no problem giving them away as it saves dumping costs, its where i plan on getting some more from soon.

Enjoy homebrewing

Stocky :)
 
Stocky_S said:
Also you can pick up grolshe style bottles fairly cheao with grolche in or from ebay they are safer and i think look better also you save on the lids being replaced.
Click to expand...

I've never seen Grolsch-style bottles in any bars here, and they're certainly not cheap on ebay. I don't think I've ever seen them for under $1.50 each, while regular bottles are (mostly) free if you ask your friends to donate their old beer bottles to you. Caps are about $7 for a gross, and a capper is about $10.
 
Nateo said:
I've never seen Grolsch-style bottles in any bars here, and they're certainly not cheap on ebay. I don't think I've ever seen them for under $1.50 each, while regular bottles are (mostly) free if you ask your friends to donate their old beer bottles to you. Caps are about $7 for a gross, and a capper is about $10.
Click to expand...

If you get them with beer in then they are free, and admittedly the caps are cheap but i still maintain that the saftey is higher for someone new to bottleing, also i must admit they are not a common thing in bars, i personally have 1 of them i use for testing etc and i use wine bottles for my cider (usually flat) or if i start carbing will use a keg.

Suppose its all personal preference at the end of the day :mug:
 
Just why is it that any problem might exist in reusing screw off beer bottles/caps?

The modern aluminum beer can, and glass beer bottle with screw off cap are engineered, believe it or not, to astonishingly high engineering standards. Very little, if any, degradation to the cap and gasketing sealant occurs in the initial "use" following the first bottling from the brewer. Hand tightening a cap back on would seem to be fairly error free. No? If not......

I did a quick Google of "bottle cap torque testers" and came up with very little (nothing in fact... but it was just a quick scan) for the home brewer. The cheapest model was 1500 dollars. If some N-m torque standard were listed anywhere for the standard screw on beer bottle cap, and a 35 dollar apparatus available for applying that torque consistently, I don't understand why recycling these bottles and caps wouldn't be perfect for home brews. Just a little experimentation with a molded epoxy 'socket' and standard torque wrench would probably get you 98 percent there in any case.

I'd be willing to be that such a seal would be more precise than what might be achieved with the wire baled ceramic plugs and rubber gaskets on Grolsch bottles.
 
I don't know about re-twisting caps on to screw-off beer bottles. From everything I read on here, the issues come from trying to recap them using wing-style cappers. The glass is too thin at the top to hold up to the sideward pressure those cappers exert. Bench top cappers exert only downward pressure, which the bottles can better handle. I have capped a few using a capper attachment which chucks into my drill press and they worked fine. (No, you don't turn the drill on; :) it's a stainless steel capper bell on a shank. You just but the bottle underneath and press down.)

For the price I think I'd just as soon go with a capper as to try to re-twist old caps back on. Just seems like to much risk of spoiling my much anticipated cider :)
 
Just capped a batch of cider for gifts in "Baby Bud" 7 oz bottles. Used my drill press capper attachment with absolutely no issues. If those bottles can handle it a regular one should with no problem.
 
For this batch I'm going really old school (who am i kidding? really 'ultra cheap' is more honest) and using Ball Mason Jars already at hand. Got a dozen quart sized mason jars in the cedar chests downstairs. These can only enhance the appearance of having gone "basement alcoholic" to my friends. Just have to go get some new rubber sealing rings for them. Sterilize everything rack/siphon into them, and add a dollop of apple juice concentrate before sealing to get a little fizz going.

Of all the instructions I've come across for bottle carbonation none have been specific on where to actually DO this phase.... same place that fermentation took place or in the refridgerator?
 
There was a recent discussion on another thread about using mason jars. Basically they are designed to hold against vacuum, not pressure. So they should work well for still cider, but you might want to reconsider adding any carbonation. Plus unless they are the really antique jars, like the blue glass type, they are very thin for the amount of surface area. So you could end up with either (a) flat cider because the seals wouldn't hold the pressure; or (b) cider bombs.

But for still cider I like the jar idea. I've thought about getting some of the pint sized ones that come with mug handles already on them :)
 
Hmm, good thoughts. I do want to try for a bit of carbonation so maybe the resealable plastic liters, like the faygo sparkling water bottles, would be a good idea. I like the Faygo sparkling waters, so I must be immune to any plastic taste that might result (smile).

I'm already cheating and siphoning off a couple of cups at a time and backsweetening with apple concentrate. Yummy actually. I got a 10 dollar 750ml bottle of the 'good stuff' brewed at a local cider mill. I like mine just as much to be honest. Mine might be just a tiny bit more 'sour' but that's it. This is encouraging. With the next batch, later this fall, I'm sure to go with high(er) quality genuine cider and a little more knowhow.

Thanks for all the help and comments. I'll weigh back in here when I pop open the lightly carbonated experiment in a month or so.

Does a good "dollop" like a heaping tablespoon of frozen apple concentrate sound like a reasonable amount for each liter of cider before resealing? I prefer 'seat of the pants' recipe amounts in most home cooking since there are always so many variables involved.
 
Well, It stopped fermenting completely, I let it set and clear for a week, then racked it into 10 sterilized I liter Faygo plastic sparkling water bottles. In July it's very easy to empty those in a hurry.

I put approx 2 fluid oz of pure apple concentrate in each bottle, tightly capped and placed in the corner of the basement near a drain in case of catastrophe. It's about 70 degrees. Next day there are no bubbles forming whatsoever and no stiffness in the plastic bottles indicating pressure. Did I use too little apple concentrate (it's almost pure sugar)? Or was apple concentrate a bad idea?

I left the tenth bottle without any added sugar/concentrate as a 'control' and placed it alongside the others. I'll wait a week or two and open one, and then the control, to see if anything at all took place in the way of carbonation. But it's not looking fruitfull so far.

There were a few liters left in the carboy above the sediment so I siphoned off two of them, used them to reconstitute frozen orange juice swapping the cider for three cups of water per each orange juice and had friends over for a b'b'q. DIY "Summer Shandy" for all. Really, and truly, amazing results for such a seat of the pants first effort.

Just hope my 10 liters in the basement don't end up vinegar.
 
Apple concentrate isn't a bad idea for priming, just make sure you catch them once they're successfully carbed because it's quite a lot - any longer, and they'll start exploding!

As for no carbonation yet - it takes about a week, so chill! When they're stiff, put them in the fridge and they're ready to drink. Your cider will only turn into vinegar if exposed to air and bacteria, so if they're airtight, you'll probably be okay. If you havn't added any preservative, try to drink them once they're open. I didn't add any preservative to my first batch of wine, and it only tasted vinegary once I'd drunk half a bottle and left it in the fridge for a few days.

Did you sanitize the bottles before you racked the cider into them?
 
Couple of days and the bottles are pretty stiff. No bubbling at all visible unless I shake them. Would have expected to see a little activity on the surface like when they were in primary fermentation.

I sanitized the plastic bottles the same as the carboy at the beginning. Used household hydrogen peroxide well swished with the caps closed and then 99.99 percent of it shaken out.

Next time I"m in Holland, MI, I'll stop by the brew supply and get some star-san.

Any other tips on judging completion? Started Friday. Open one this coming Friday and see what I see?
 

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