Carbing with Beer Gas (G-MIX)

okay.. so i got my 20 Cubic feet of beer gas in my tank and i'm ready to pour my stout...

I have not found a strait answer but have some sort of direction...

Should i force card the stout at 30 psi for 24 hours and then hook it up to the beer gas for serving?.. I have the Stout faucet with the pressure ring and all... (guinness style).

I'm also thinking about leaving the keg at 30 psi on the g-mix for a week at 30 psi but i'm not sure if the 25% co2 will penetrate or carb the beer the little i need.

any chance you guys can help me out?.. i'm sure option 1 will work but the second one i'm not too sure about.

Personally, i would not carb with CO2 and then just use beer-gas for serving. That defeats the purpose. You want the beer carbed with beer-gas.

I usually just go with the 30 PSI and shake the hell out of it method and that works for beer gas as well.

30 PSI, shake the hell out of it and then chill it.

I keep my CO2 at about 12-13 psi given the beer line run I have to make and for beer-gas, I usually goose it slightly higher than that.. 14-15 psi (but you might have to play with it a bit)

Cape Brewing said:

Personally, i would not carb with CO2 and then just use beer-gas for serving. That defeats the purpose. You want the beer carbed with beer-gas.

I usually just go with the 30 PSI and shake the hell out of it method and that works for beer gas as well.

30 PSI, shake the hell out of it and then chill it.

I keep my CO2 at about 12-13 psi given the beer line run I have to make and for beer-gas, I usually goose it slightly higher than that.. 14-15 psi (but you might have to play with it a bit)

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Well, actually no. The purpose of beer gas is to boost pressure without boosting carbonation.

The idea with carbonating with co2 first is a) it's cheaper to carb with co2, and b) only the co2 will absorb into the beer. Nitrogen will only dissolve an insignificant amount. The problem is with the small amount of headspace in a full keg, there's a limited amount of co2 present, and you'll end up under carbing it.

The best method is to carbonate to .75 to 1.5 vol of co2 (depending on the recipe) and then place on ~25psi of beer gas to serve through the faucet. The low percentage of co2 will keep the beer from carbing up too much more, and the N2 will provide the pressure to force the beer through faucet.

The reason for the above has to do with partial pressures.

Hmm... never heard of doing it that way and have been doing it just like I said for years... apparently I'm doing it wrong. Who knew?

My stouts on nitro are never under carbed but at the same time seem to take a hair more pressure (14-15lbs) than my CO2 manifold to pour right and sit up a nice head.

Cape Brewing said:

Hmm... never heard of doing it that way and have been doing it just like I said for years... apparently I'm doing it wrong. Who knew?

My stouts on nitro are never under carbed but at the same time seem to take a hair more pressure (14-15lbs) than my CO2 manifold to pour right and sit up a nice head.

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The nice thing about stout's and stout faucets is they are very forgiving since the act of pouring strips almost all of the CO2 out anyway....foam issues are typically more a problem with the base beer than the setup. (namely taking forever to settle out)

It's basically a way to simulate the effect of a beer engine with a sparkler attached (low carbed beer, pushed under pressure through a small orfice)

There reason I suggest carbing first on co2 is because of the solubility differences between N2 and CO2, and for similiar size cylinders, you'll get a lot more gas out of a co2 tank than a nitro tank, so it's usually beneficial to use the co2 for carbing first.

The differences become much more important when you're using nitrogen on regular beers to boost the pressure to push them long distances (known as long draw)

Cool. Good info. Like i was saying, I had never heard of not doing it the way I always have (never bothered to look to be honest) and I never had a problem so if ain't broke....

At our pub I carb my stout in our uni-tanks at 6-8 psi/@45F for
about a week to get 1.4to1.6 volumes that guiness has. This is after fermentaion,crash cooling and racking off yeast of course. Then I keg off uni-tank into 1/2 BBL kegs, and put them under 30-35psi head pressure of the 75%/25% nitro @ 38F for a week or so, and you should be good to go. hope this help's. Cheers!!!

this is great stuff... thought i'd follow up with my results..

I put the keg in the fridge at 42 degrees and hit it with 30 PSI of Co2 for ~30 hours. (not shaking)... I then hooked it up to my G-mix and poured at 25 PSI... Let me tell you.. Nitrogen makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

About Volume.? no idea.. what i can say is that its just enough carb to put about 1/4" of creamy head on the beer and it showed a nice cascading effect. The Actual mouth feel was exactly like guinness but when it hit your lips you feel the carbonation ever so slightly.

It was a huge success in my mind.. and i'll do my next just the same. Thanks guys for the info.

I'll try to post a pic soon its a little early to drink right now.

This could be everyones nightmare... this afternoon i go down to pour myself a nice stout... i pull the handle and NOTHING.. not even a drop.. i open the fridge notice there is still beer in the line leading to my shank but i see beer at the bottom of the fridge!!.. not much maybe a pint if that. I did notice that my tank of G-mix is now empty!!!.. i just poured out a pint the night before and it was hissing away through the faucet.

Question is.. My tank took 20 Cubic Feet of beer gas.. i have about 5-6 feet of beer line 4 feet of gas line... the first pint poured perfect so the beer line length seems good. I know this is a beer line leak since i found beer on the bottom.. my question is.. is my tank too small to serve 5 galons of beer?... is 20 Cubic feet not enough to serve a few kegs as i thought originally?..
help!..

A 20 cu.ft bottle should be just fine. You have a very bad leak somewhere. You should be able to serve many keg's off that bottle. Make sure to find and fix that leak before you go wasted anymore $$$ on gas!!! Cheers!!!

Brewerforlife said:

A 20 cu.ft bottle should be just fine. You have a very bad leak somewhere. You should be able to serve many keg's off that bottle. Make sure to find and fix that leak before you go wasted anymore $$$ on gas!!! Cheers!!!

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Thanks... I'm already looking for some better clamps for all the lines using beer gas. My Co2 has been fine.

Brewerforlife said:

A 20 cu.ft bottle should be just fine. You have a very bad leak somewhere. You should be able to serve many keg's off that bottle. Make sure to find and fix that leak before you go wasted anymore $$$ on gas!!! Cheers!!!

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So I'm thinking the leak can be coming actual regulator... I am about to replace my gas line and ball locks to be sure... I keep having to shut down the main valve on the tank to make sure I dont waste the gas... annoying.

The leak is somewhere in the keg... i'm thinking now it could be from the pressure release valve in the lid... but I was able to successfully Carb the beer.. with Co2. I'm loosing my mind with this. Could it be seeled "enough" for co2 but not for nitro? Geeze that sounds stupid but i'm coming up empty.

By the way.. i Upgraded the gas line with a brand new High pressure line and ball lock with the threads. a brand new fitted clamp... I Loaded it prior to hooking to the keg and didnt get any hissing or bubbles on the connections... so its got to be the keg?? right?

Dr1nkBeer said:

The leak is somewhere in the keg... i'm thinking now it could be from the pressure release valve in the lid... so its got to be the keg?? right?

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Not necessarily, but tough to tell without more info.
From your initial issue with an empty tank, and only a bit of beer leakage, it points to a leak pre-keg. When all the tank pressure was lost, you could have had beer pushed out the gas in line by its own carb, and into/out of the reg. This would require the perfect storm of a very full keg (up to the gas in dip tube), and no check valves on your gas lines.

There are other possibilities:
If you are using a regular CO2 low pressure reg as your nitro reg, the 30psi might be causing leakage issues within the reg. More than likely, it is a leak upstream of the low pressure out line of the reg- PRV/OPV, diaphragm, tank-reg gasket, etc. If those are eliminated, or you think the beer leakage was not caused by my scenario, you can attack from another angle first. The keg PRVs are common sources of leaks, as you surmised. You will need to get the leak check solution into the vent holes in a good liquid state. The QDs are the same way, lots of leak detector fluid in a good liquid state.

Using starsan for leak check works OK, but there are foamier options like DW soap or special leak check products. There are also leak detectors that are really just bubble gauges. Once the system is steady state with actual beer, or no beer and lines capped off, the reg output (or input if possible) is run through the bubble gauge for a visual indicator of even tiny leaks.

These small leaks have driven some to extreme measures like throwing the entire set up into the backyard pool to see where the leak is coming from.

P.S. When you turn the gas off, you might also pull the QDs off the keg until you figure out where the leak is. Otherwise, you could lose carb from the keg.

good points... yeah.. the keg was full but cant be sure it reached the gas tube... I have a legit Nitro Regulator on the G-mix so i'm sure it can handle it.. plus when its not connected to the keg everything checks out. You bring up a good point. What if i charge the keg with 30 psi and disconnect both Ball locks?... the pressure should remain atleast until its absorbed into the beer... i havent done this at 30 psi yet..

Hey.. I was going to ask if i could submerge my regulator (minus the gauges)... dont think I wont... i'll plug the holes and go... if i could.

Dr1nkBeer said:

I have a legit Nitro Regulator on the G-mix so i'm sure it can handle it..

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It still needs to be checked, but if you have already set a 30psi out, opened the tank valve until capped lines have pressurized, and it held both pressures for a 'long enough' time, you should be able to focus elsewhere.

Dr1nkBeer said:

What if i charge the keg with 30 psi and disconnect both Ball locks?... the pressure should remain atleast until its absorbed into the beer... i havent done this at 30 psi yet..

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This would work to eliminate the keg PRV, if you can't get enough leak check to cover the vent holes to check it that way. It does add in some more variables, like the poppets, which aren't in play when the QDs are on. I had a tiny leak on one of mine, and didn't track it down until I got a layer of clear Starsan to completely cover the poppet/post. Anything but a pure liquid film, and I got no bubbles.

Checking the QDs is also problematic. Submerging the keg shouldn't be too difficult, though, and won't damage anything.

The leaked beer is still a mystery, though, as normally the entire keg would have been pushed out prior to the tank emptying, unless my earlier scenario was the cause.

Dr1nkBeer said:

Hey.. I was going to ask if i could submerge my regulator (minus the gauges)... dont think I wont... i'll plug the holes and go... if i could.

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Desperate times call for desperate measures.