Beginning Brewer Needs Some Help

Hello All!

This is my first post and my first home brewing related forum. I could use some help from the experts with a few questions I have come across in my readings and research:

1. Steeping Grains: The home brew kits I have purchased have instructions that say to steep the included grains for 30 minutes AFTER reaching the desired ~150-160F. The book I am reading now says to add the grains with the COLD water before reaching that temperature? Which method works best/is the easiest/gives the most added flavor/is correct?

2. Combining wort with cold water waiting in the fermentor: Currently, I have been cooling my work with a wort chiller, bringing the temperature to ~80F, adding it to my fermentor, then topping it off with ~3 more gallons to reach 5. Would I get the same results if I added the hot wort to the fermentor with the cold water and then used my wort chiller to reach the desired temperature? Would that be more effective and faster?

3. Steeping and adding adjuncts (like fruit): Can all adjuncts (orange peels, spruce tips, cherries, coriander, etc.) be left in the Primary Fermentor without worries? Also, I have 1 lb. of hand-picked blackberries from last summer in my freezer. I would like to add it to my next beer? Should I defrost them? Are they still good?

Thanks to all those who respond.

Ninkasi

1. Both are fine. Putting it in the cold water while you bring the water up to heat is maybe better, or at least quicker.

2. Whichever one is quickest; what order that's done in doesn't matter, but pitching the yeast as quick as possible does.

3. I think there is the risk of contamination with the fruits/spices you mentioned. You should really boil them to reduce the risk. Someone who's brewed a fruit beer will probably correct me here...

Check out this website *********** (not saying stop asking questions here just it's a site that I have found pretty useful)
I haven't yet used fruit but from what I have read you should add the fruit to the secondary fermenter, then rack on top of it to mix it. Then you should add a 3rd fermenter to get the wort off the fruit before it starts to rot and give off flavors.

I agree with mysterio on both #1 and 2.

1. what book are you reading? the steeping is supposed to mimick a 'mash' and so, to my knowledge (which could be wrong), the water temp is suppose to be around 152ish in order to get the sugars and malt out of the malted grains, too low of a temperature, you won't get enough off, and too high, you start extracting tannins, or way too high, and shut down the enzymes, and can't get anything

2. fastest way to chill boiled wort: before you start your brew day, put half your water in the freezer. if you only have one immersion chiller, then use it initially to cool down your partial boil, and get it to around 110, should only take 5-10 minutes, or less depending on your immersion chiller, then when you add the cold water, the whole temperature should be around 70. don't add the water first, it will slow down the process. you must remember how an immersion chiller works, on temperature differentials, the larger the difference, the more effecient, the smaller the difference, the longer it will take, so you use the immersion chiller first because there is a larger temperature difference, and then add the water to get to desired temperature. if you add the water first, you will be trying to cool the wort a lot longer because after you add the water, the temperature differential will be smaller, and it will take longer for the immersion chiller to get down to pitching temps. don't forget to aerate the wort too.

3. whatever you add to the fermenters needs to be pasteurized. you can use whatever you want, just make sure it is sanitary to add. i believe bringing the berries to 160F for 15 minutes is good enough, plus it will generally make the berries into more of a paste, which i believe is easier to extract into beer. i would think same goes for regular adjuncts, you need to make sure they are safe and don't post an infection threat to the wort/prebeer.

hope this helps.

gnef said:

1. what book are you reading? the steeping is supposed to mimick a 'mash' and so, to my knowledge (which could be wrong), the water temp is suppose to be around 152ish in order to get the sugars and malt out of the malted grains, too low of a temperature, you won't get enough off, and too high, you start extracting tannins, or way too high, and shut down the enzymes, and can't get anything

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I think what is being asked here is when to add the grains to be steeped. Some directions say to put it in the cold water and then heat the water, others say to heat the water and then put the grains in when the appropriate temperature is achieved. Both examples still steep the grains at the right temperature, but I bet the poster is asking if there's any advantage to having the grains submerged as the water is being heated.

i would say the best way to would be to wait till it comes to temperature. i don't know why, but that's just what my intuition says. i think if you ramp it up, you will get undesirables in the wort. i haven't done any all grain, but i think there is a reason why they want to hit their temperatures exactly, not higher, not lower. that's the whole idea around HERMS and RIMS systems, right? if/when i go to all grain, i will be very careful with my mash temperatures

the difference may not be that great or significant though, and it will all be beer... so to each his/her own.

Thank you to everyone for their advice, insight, and personal experiences.

gnef: Right now I am reading Charlie Papazian's Joy of Home Brewing, 3rd Edition. Here is one of his descriptions for steeping the grains, as Fatabbot explained a little better then me:

"Add the cracked crystal malt and cracked toasted malt barley to 1 1/2 gallons of cold water and let steep at 150-160F for 30 minutes."

The instructions from my local home brewing store have always said to bring the water to 150-160F THEN add the grains.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried both approaches. Would more barley flavor come through if it is allowed to essentially 'soak' while the temperature is raised to 150-160F?

Regarding my frozen 'fresh' fruit, I think I will add it during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil for flavor and strain it out before it gets into the Primary Fermentor. If nothing else, maybe I will discover the first know deadly pathogen to survive in a home brew!

gnef said:

1. what book are you reading? the steeping is supposed to mimick a 'mash' and so, to my knowledge (which could be wrong), the water temp is suppose to be around 152ish in order to get the sugars and malt out of the malted grains, too low of a temperature, you won't get enough off, and too high, you start extracting tannins, or way too high, and shut down the enzymes, and can't get anything.

Click to expand...

Steeping grains don't mimic a mash. Most steeping grains aren't designed to be mashed and you get very little additional SG increase from them - the enzyme conversion doesn't occur and very little sugar will come from them. Steeping grains are there to add body, some flavor and color to the finished product, NOT more sugars.

So starting them in cold water, and letting them soak while you bring the water up to 150-160 or so works fine, since no enzyme conversion is taking place anyway (or at least not enough to make any difference).

Ninkasi said:

Regarding my frozen 'fresh' fruit, I think I will add it during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil for flavor and strain it out before it gets into the Primary Fermentor. If nothing else, maybe I will discover the first know deadly pathogen to survive in a home brew!

Click to expand...

I have not added fruit to any of my beers and don't plan to but I think fruit is more effective added at the primary or secondary fermentation stages. You will boil out most of the flavors if added to the first boil.Good Luck with the brew.

bikebryan said:

Steeping grains don't mimic a mash. Most steeping grains aren't designed to be mashed and you get very little additional SG increase from them - the enzyme conversion doesn't occur and very little sugar will come from them. Steeping grains are there to add body, some flavor and color to the finished product, NOT more sugars.

So starting them in cold water, and letting them soak while you bring the water up to 150-160 or so works fine, since no enzyme conversion is taking place anyway (or at least not enough to make any difference).

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oh, that's interesting, i guess i've done some 'mini-mashes' as they are called by austin home brew, that i had thought were exactly for that purpose, but i guess i am off base here...

I've never put fruit into the boil and I've made a number of fruit beers. The "conventional wisdom" is that they go in the secondary, or, if you use an extract (which you are not in this case), but the extract into the bottling bucket with the priming sugar. There is a long fruit beer thread somewhere on this forum that I recommend. If I have some time I will find it and edit this with a link. It is recommended reading for the fruit beer brewer.

Edit - here it is: https://www.homebrewtalk.com//showthread.php?t=5084

Yes DO NOT BOIL fruit. The pectin in the fruit will cause you to have a cloudy beer... It will aslo most likely not taste like the fruity taste you are looking for. If you want to sanitize the fruit you can pasterize it by putting it in water 150-180F for 15-20 mins.