Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

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FatsSchindee said:
I think you're looking at it wrong... 1.102 to 1.093 isn't 22 points - it's only 9.

And if you don't trust Beersmith, the simple formula C1V1 = C2V2 backs that up:

102 X 5.0 = C2 X 5.5
C2 = 102 (5.0/5.5)
C2 = 102 X 0.91
C2 = 93
Click to expand...

I think you're right.

I brewed this today. With my rig I got the 1090 OG, but I had to do a 90 minute boil and ended up with 4.8G into the fermenter. Not too bad. Also ended up subbing Wilamette for Mt. Hood as that's what I had on hand.

Forgot to add the chocolate during the boil too. I don't like to run chocolate through my plate chiller, so with the last beer I used chocoate in, I pumped hot wort into a pitcher with the chocolate in it and let it melt. Ended up just nuking the chocolate and pouring it into the fermenter. We'll see how that goes.

Otherwise, a successful brew day. This is without question the biggest beer I've managed to make. Hopefully my starter + one package of liquid yeast is enough. 2.5 hours later I have airlock activity, so I think I'm in good shape!
 
I took a gravity sample of this beer on Saturday, so 6 days after I pitched. Airlock activity had stopped as far as I could tell.

I taped the STC-1000 probe to the bucket and set the STC to 18.6C for the first 3 days, then ramped it up to 21.5C for the next 3 days.

1090 attenuated down to 1026. That leaves the beer at about 69% attenuation and 8.5%ABV.

I tasted the sample and it was just huge coffee at this point, but I guess that's to be expected 6 days in. I love coffee, but this is just basically carbonated coffee with a kick!

I'm going to check it again tonight to see if it's dropped any. I'm thinking about mixing up 1/4-1/2 teaspoon of amalayse enzyme in some water and pouring it in to try and get another few points out of it. I don't want it to go down too far, but I think 1026 might be a little high for an FG. Thoughts?
 
it's only been 6 days. give it a full two weeks, you might still have some very slow activity in there.

1.026 is about right considering that you started a little higher.

if you attenuate further, you might end up making the coffee flavor even more pronounced as there will be less sweetness to balance it out.

how much control do you have with amylase? i've never used it post-fermentation. it will take some time for the yeast to consume those sugars, so give it time.

i've done this recipe twice, and i've found it to be a little too heavy on the coffee. probably has a lot to do with the type of coffee used. if/when i get around to making this one again, i'll probably cut the amount of coffee in half.
 
Shawn0522 said:
I brewed this last night. By far the biggest grain bill I have used. OG was short by 3, which i was really happy with as i had no idea how effecient i was going to be with this much grain. Also I couldnt get cocoa nibs and i was already set up to brew so put in some 100% cocoa. Now just need to be patient and see how it turns out.
Click to expand...

OK so 10 days into fermentation. My starting Gravity was a little low at 1.083 but i was happy with it as I had never done anything with this big of a grain bill. I took a gravity reading tonight and I am at 1.016. i did drop and break my hydrometer that I had used for the starting gravity so maybe i was even lower than I originally had thought. Oh well looks like fermentation is pretty much done. Planning on moving it to the secondary this weekend. I tasted it and did not think the coffee was too strong, but reading others post i am curious if I should leave out the coffee come bottling time or reduce it?
 
Shawn0522 said:
I tasted it and did not think the coffee was too strong, but reading others post i am curious if I should leave out the coffee come bottling time or reduce it?
Click to expand...

go by taste, not by what you've read. if you're happy with the amount of coffee you have now, then no more coffee needed. if you think it could use a little most coffee complexity, then add some at bottling. make some thick cold-brewed coffee, add some to bottling bucket, rack on top, then taste. add more if needed.
 
I hit 1.084 as well.
This time through I left out the coffee and cocoa nibs although I may add the cold brew coffee and nibs at secondary.
Last time through this beer came out so damned good I've decided to make it once a year.
Cheers!
 
Ok...I'm preparing to brew this one Saturday and have a few questions I was hoping you guys could help me out on. I've read the thread back to page 80 and after reading some comments this is my brew plan...let me know thoughts/opinions.

I'm going to stick to the exact grain bill. I'm looking to hit the intended ABV or even a bit higher. I usually only hit ~70% efficiency...so should I up the grain bill a bit to compensate? I already plan on boiling 30 min extra but my kettle is only 8 gallons.

-I can't decide between doing the chocolate additions @15min or instead adding 4oz of cacao powder @5min. Any opinions on this? Also I do not plan on adding the coffee at flameout.

-7 days prior to bottling I plan on adding 4oz of cacao nibs and 2 vanilla beans to primary

-4 days before bottling I plan on adding 4oz of sumatran whole beans (this will be my only coffee addition)

This sound like an OK plan? Anything you would do different?
 
mmacdon3 said:
Ok...I'm preparing to brew this one Saturday and have a few questions I was hoping you guys could help me out on. I've read the thread back to page 80 and after reading some comments this is my brew plan...let me know thoughts/opinions.

I'm going to stick to the exact grain bill. I'm looking to hit the intended ABV or even a bit higher. I usually only hit ~70% efficiency...so should I up the grain bill a bit to compensate? I already plan on boiling 30 min extra but my kettle is only 8 gallons.

-I can't decide between doing the chocolate additions @15min or instead adding 4oz of cacao powder @5min. Any opinions on this? Also I do not plan on adding the coffee at flameout.

-7 days prior to bottling I plan on adding 4oz of cacao nibs and 2 vanilla beans to primary

-4 days before bottling I plan on adding 4oz of sumatran whole beans (this will be my only coffee addition)

This sound like an OK plan? Anything you would do different?
Click to expand...

Great plan. Whole beans is the way to go with coffee additions.
I'd use cacao nibs with some vanilla to round out the milk chocolate character as opposed to cocoa powder. Do the powder at flameout too though if you want a very chocolatey beer
 
m00ps said:
Great plan. Whole beans is the way to go with coffee additions.
I'd use cacao nibs with some vanilla to round out the milk chocolate character as opposed to cocoa powder. Do the powder at flameout too though if you want a very chocolatey beer
Click to expand...

Are you saying to nix the 4oz cacao powder @ 5min and instead use the cacao nibs/vanilla at 5min?
 
no im saying nix the powder at 5min and do a addition of nibs and vanilla to the fermentor instead. I've found it works better and keeps the chocolate flavor longer
 
m00ps said:
no im saying nix the powder at 5min and do a addition of nibs and vanilla to the fermentor instead. I've found it works better and keeps the chocolate flavor longer
Click to expand...

Ok gotcha...appreciate the advice. So just to be clear you aren't recommending any chocolate additions (chocolate/nibs/cacao powder) during the boil, but to get the chocolate flavor from the cacao nib/vanilla primary addition? With the option of adding cacao powder @5 min if you want more of a chocolate bomb

This is what I'm leaning towards tomorrow.
-At ~5-10min left in boil add 1.5 oz bittersweet bakers chocolate and 1.5 oz of cacao powder
-add 2 vanilla beans/ 4oz cacao nibs in primary 7 days before bottling
-add 4oz whole Sumatra beans 4 days before bottling
 
Yup, youll get a good amount of chocolate character from the malts, but those primary additions put it over the top. Sounds like a good plan

You may want to consider using a muslin bag or something to contain the beans and the nibs. I've sucked some up into my siphoning tube before and it was a PITA
 
Quick update on how my brew day went. Undershot the OG by a lot....ended up at 1.072. Everything else went perfect from maintaining mash temps to the boil and additions...just really disappointed on how poor my efficiency was. I should have been prepared and added some sugar to boost the OG but I guess it's too late for that.

Right now it's still bubbling but starting to slow down. One thing that's strange is that despite vigorous fermentation there is absolutely no krausen. After seeing a lot of similar posts in this thread I assume it's because of the oils in the cacao powder/bittersweet bakers chocolate that is causing that.

Oh well hopefully it turns out delicious...just wish it was going to be a bit higher ABV
 
mmacdon3 said:
Quick update on how my brew day went. Undershot the OG by a lot....ended up at 1.072. Everything else went perfect from maintaining mash temps to the boil and additions...just really disappointed on how poor my efficiency was. I should have been prepared and added some sugar to boost the OG but I guess it's too late for that.

Right now it's still bubbling but starting to slow down. One thing that's strange is that despite vigorous fermentation there is absolutely no krausen. After seeing a lot of similar posts in this thread I assume it's because of the oils in the cacao powder/bittersweet bakers chocolate that is causing that.

Oh well hopefully it turns out delicious...just wish it was going to be a bit higher ABV
Click to expand...

Was this a "sudden" drop in your efficiency? For some reason, mine has plummeted from ~80% to barely 60% for 3 batches in a row. Not sure what the heck has been going on.

But, FWIW, the beer may just be easier to drink ;) good luck!
 
yeah that's why I always was afraid of using actual chocolate due to the cocoa butter used. I've done cocoa powder before, but it barely has any fats. As long as the gravity keeps dropping looks like its fermenting OK
 
pwortiz said:
Was this a "sudden" drop in your efficiency? For some reason, mine has plummeted from ~80% to barely 60% for 3 batches in a row. Not sure what the heck has been going on.

But, FWIW, the beer may just be easier to drink ;) good luck!
Click to expand...

I've been getting around 70% lately but for this beer I didn't have the homebrew shop double mill the grains like I usually do and also this was my first all grain recipe with a large grain bill so efficiency probably dropped a good bit because of that too.

I'm surprised the 1 ounce of bittersweet chocolate caused zero krausen to form..didn't think that was a lot.

m00ps---As far as the muslin bag goes...when I use that to toss in the vanilla beans/cacao nibs, will that just float on the surface the whole time? Will the flavor still be able spread throughout the beer?
 
I brewed the base recipe without any chocolate or coffee additions in the kettle.

I fermented for 3 weeks in primary. Racked to secondary.

3 days on baked cacao nibs

Rough crush of 3 oz whole sumatra coffee beans in a muslin mag for 2 days.

Then another addition of 2 oz of cacoa nibs for another two days.

2 total weeks in secondary & racked to keg. 1.091/1.028

I naturally conditioned a gallon of the base recipe prior to the chocolate & coffee additions too. It is a really good RIS in it's own right.
 
mmacdon3 said:
I've been getting around 70% lately but for this beer I didn't have the homebrew shop double mill the grains like I usually do and also this was my first all grain recipe with a large grain bill so efficiency probably dropped a good bit because of that too.

I'm surprised the 1 ounce of bittersweet chocolate caused zero krausen to form..didn't think that was a lot.

m00ps---As far as the muslin bag goes...when I use that to toss in the vanilla beans/cacao nibs, will that just float on the surface the whole time? Will the flavor still be able spread throughout the beer?
Click to expand...

The flavor still gets in there. I've had bags sink and some float, but either way, it seems to get saturated with beer. Its not like a bag of whole hops floating where half dont even get wet...
 
Looking to get some feedback/comment/advise.

I brewed this last year and it was a complete failure due to improper capping (capper was broken). All the bottles turned our flat and tasted like soy sauce.

I'm planning on brewing this again this year(summer?). And was thinking of replacing the coffee with vanilla. I'm not a big fan of coffee stouts.

What does everyone think? Do you think it will turn out good? If anyone have an experience with using vanilla pods please chim in. I'm thinking of either putting the vanilla pods in the fermenter for the entire duration of the fermentation process. Or I could soaked them in a jar with some vodka and then addeded prior to bottling. How much vinally pods should I use for a 5gal batch? I'm a big vanilla stout fans so I would like for it to be a little vanilla forward.

Again advise/comments are welcome.
 
ptran86 said:
Looking to get some feedback/comment/advise.

I brewed this last year and it was a complete failure due to improper capping (capper was broken). All the bottles turned our flat and tasted like soy sauce.

I'm planning on brewing this again this year(summer?). And was thinking of replacing the coffee with vanilla. I'm not a big fan of coffee stouts.

What does everyone think? Do you think it will turn out good? If anyone have an experience with using vanilla pods please chim in. I'm thinking of either putting the vanilla pods in the fermenter for the entire duration of the fermentation process. Or I could soaked them in a jar with some vodka and then addeded prior to bottling. How much vinally pods should I use for a 5gal batch? I'm a big vanilla stout fans so I would like for it to be a little vanilla forward.

Again advise/comments are welcome.
Click to expand...

I use vanilla in every sweet beer or chocolate beer I've made. 2 beans is good for me to round out the flavor, but I'd do 4 or 5 for 5gal if you want a "Vanilla" beer.

Chop them up, toss them in a bit of water, boil for 1min, let cool and dump them right into the primary. Vodka's an option, but I find the small boil extract plenty of vanilla flavor without the waiting time for them to soak
 
m00ps said:
I use vanilla in every sweet beer or chocolate beer I've made. 2 beans is good for me to round out the flavor, but I'd do 4 or 5 for 5gal if you want a "Vanilla" beer.

Chop them up, toss them in a bit of water, boil for 1min, let cool and dump them right into the primary. Vodka's an option, but I find the small boil extract plenty of vanilla flavor without the waiting time for them to soak
Click to expand...

I was thinking of soaking them then add to the fermentator because I was afraid the 6 weeks of fermenetation wouldn't be long enough. I seen a couple place that says you need to soak the vanilla pods for 2-3 months before adding them to your beer.

Does it matter how much water you boil with the vanilla pods?
 
That 2-3 month thing doesnt sound quite right...

I just use enough water to cover the beans and to prevent scorching them in my flask, so like 100ml
 
m00ps said:
That 2-3 month thing doesnt sound quite right...

I just use enough water to cover the beans and to prevent scorching them in my flask, so like 100ml
Click to expand...

He soaked them in vodka for 2-3 months then add directly to the beer right before drinking.
 
Anyone else have this beer turn out acrid?

I just kegged this on Sunday and the flavor just isn't right. Like strong, burnt coffee is what I'm picking up.

I used 2 ounces of Sumatra grounds at flameout, let it finish in primary for 1 month. Went from 1090 to 1026.

Couple weeks ago I racked it into another bucket, the just this last Friday I threw in 1 ounce of Kona grounds as well as 1 ounce of cocoa nibs and kegged it 2 days later.

So far, as I said, the beer tastes of strong, burnt / acrid coffee. This happened when I brewed the KBS clone that came from Zymurgy as well. The recipe is similar, and the coffee profile for both recipes is similar too. With the KBS clone, I added the Kona as a cold press, this time I just tossed the grounds in secondary. I got the grounds from Gloria Jeans if that has any bearing on the matter.

The KBS clone I gave a few months and then just drain poured the keg it was that bad. Unfortunately I'm getting the same types of favors from this beer. The only other nugget I have is that when I went from primary to secondary, I believe the taste I had was much better than this, but it was warmer and a smaller taste.

Super disappointed in both attempts here - FBS and KBS are two of my favorite beers and it seems like I've struck out both times. Especially as these are complex, expensive brews in both cost and time invested.
 
DonnieZ said:
Anyone else have this beer turn out acrid?

I just kegged this on Sunday and the flavor just isn't right. Like strong, burnt coffee is what I'm picking up.

I used 2 ounces of Sumatra grounds at flameout, let it finish in primary for 1 month. Went from 1090 to 1026.

Couple weeks ago I racked it into another bucket, the just this last Friday I threw in 1 ounce of Kona grounds as well as 1 ounce of cocoa nibs and kegged it 2 days later.

So far, as I said, the beer tastes of strong, burnt / acrid coffee. This happened when I brewed the KBS clone that came from Zymurgy as well. The recipe is similar, and the coffee profile for both recipes is similar too. With the KBS clone, I added the Kona as a cold press, this time I just tossed the grounds in secondary. I got the grounds from Gloria Jeans if that has any bearing on the matter.

The KBS clone I gave a few months and then just drain poured the keg it was that bad. Unfortunately I'm getting the same types of favors from this beer. The only other nugget I have is that when I went from primary to secondary, I believe the taste I had was much better than this, but it was warmer and a smaller taste.

Super disappointed in both attempts here - FBS and KBS are two of my favorite beers and it seems like I've struck out both times. Especially as these are complex, expensive brews in both cost and time invested.
Click to expand...

Could it be to new so the coffee is still strong? Mine was ruined due to loss of carbonation (bad capper). I found a leftover bottle maybe 3-4 months old and it actually tasted pretty tasty besides the fact that it was flat.
 
DonnieZ said:
Anyone else have this beer turn out acrid?

I just kegged this on Sunday and the flavor just isn't right. Like strong, burnt coffee is what I'm picking up.

I used 2 ounces of Sumatra grounds at flameout, let it finish in primary for 1 month. Went from 1090 to 1026.

Couple weeks ago I racked it into another bucket, the just this last Friday I threw in 1 ounce of Kona grounds as well as 1 ounce of cocoa nibs and kegged it 2 days later.

So far, as I said, the beer tastes of strong, burnt / acrid coffee. This happened when I brewed the KBS clone that came from Zymurgy as well. The recipe is similar, and the coffee profile for both recipes is similar too. With the KBS clone, I added the Kona as a cold press, this time I just tossed the grounds in secondary. I got the grounds from Gloria Jeans if that has any bearing on the matter.

The KBS clone I gave a few months and then just drain poured the keg it was that bad. Unfortunately I'm getting the same types of favors from this beer. The only other nugget I have is that when I went from primary to secondary, I believe the taste I had was much better than this, but it was warmer and a smaller taste.

Super disappointed in both attempts here - FBS and KBS are two of my favorite beers and it seems like I've struck out both times. Especially as these are complex, expensive brews in both cost and time invested.
Click to expand...

Same exact issue I had ... I brewed it again with only coffee beans in secondary. No more burnt flavor like you described.
 
My first batch of this was very astringent and the coffee flavor hasn't ever gone away after a year and a half. Some bottles have come out completely amazing, while some have been lackluster. I used sumatra in the boil and let it sit in primary for 6 weeks and used cold brewed kona at bottling.

My current version I am brewing for Burning Man went from 1.112-1.033 and I added no coffee and just a little chocolate powder in the boil. I racked it to secondary with 4 oz of cocoa nibs, 1/2 oz of bourbon soaked oak chips and 2 vanilla beans. I will probably add 3-4 oz of sumatra beans to dry hop with 3-5 days before kegging. Right now I am in no rush, so it will sit on the nibs and stuff for a few weeks. It was awesome without the coffee. Will see how this turns out. I may save it for when the man burns. Hopefully I can make a beer cart to serve it from.
 
Yeah the above few posts are why I try to stress whole bean additions in the fermentor over cold press and especially over late boil/flameout additions. Every time I've done anything other than whole bean, the coffee flavor has either faded or gotten very metallic and astringent later on. Not a very good characteristic for a type of beer that you want to age...
 
I did a double chocolate stout (not this particular recipe, but similar), and added cold-pressed coffee at bottling. Tasted great for about a month, and then it started getting the acrid, metallic flavor going on after that. I think I'll go with the the whole beans in secondary (or just after fermentation dies down in primary) next time...
 
FatsSchindee said:
I did a double chocolate stout (not this particular recipe, but similar), and added cold-pressed coffee at bottling. Tasted great for about a month, and then it started getting the acrid, metallic flavor going on after that. I think I'll go with the the whole beans in secondary (or just after fermentation dies down in primary) next time...
Click to expand...

I've brewed this recipe from the OP twice now. The first time, I used Starbucks Christmas Blend and the 2nd time I used Starbucks Espresso Roast.

When you are adding your grounds of coffee at flame out are you leaving them in your primary? When I make this beer, I use a hop sock and add the chocolate and ground coffee in the hop sock and then I remove the hop sock when the beer is chilled and ready for racking to my fermenting bucket.

I also use cold pressed Espresso Roast that I add to my bottling bucket when I'm ready to bottle and I have never had any issues with off flavors from the coffee.
 
I just added 4oz of roasted cacao nibs and 2 vanilla beans to primary. I wish I would have racked to secondary first because it looks like everything sunk...kind of was expecting them to float.

Guess there's not much I can do now...hopefully still get some flavor out of the cacao/vanilla. Will be adding whole coffee beans in about 5 days or so.
 
I made this about a month or so ago. Did everything per the recipe, but did not do any cold pressed coffee at "bottling". I keg, so I moved from primary to keg after 2 weeks and let it secondary in the keg for another 2 weeks. Put it on CO2 over the weekend. Just tried a small sample and it tastes pretty good. Definitely get the coffee and chocolate. At this point I'm thinking adding cold pressed coffee prior to putting it on gas would have made the coffee taste a bit too overpowering. We'll see how it changes over time.
 
MMJfan said:
I've brewed this recipe from the OP twice now. The first time, I used Starbucks Christmas Blend and the 2nd time I used Starbucks Espresso Roast.



When you are adding your grounds of coffee at flame out are you leaving them in your primary? When I make this beer, I use a hop sock and add the chocolate and ground coffee in the hop sock and then I remove the hop sock when the beer is chilled and ready for racking to my fermenting bucket.



I also use cold pressed Espresso Roast that I add to my bottling bucket when I'm ready to bottle and I have never had any issues with off flavors from the coffee.
Click to expand...


I didn't do this recipe - I did a double chocolate stout (Austin Homebrew Supply recipe) that I added cold pressed coffee to at bottling... so no flameout addition of coffee. It was only my fifth batch ever, so my off flavor could have been something with my process (did a mini mash, using only RO water - maybe my pH was too low from the roast grains?), if it wasn't from the cold pressed coffee at bottling...

I started following this thread when I was making it, so I could get some info on how/when to add the coffee. I do want to try this recipe sometime, as I'm a big fan of the Founder's beer...
 
Well this is going to be boiling away in the kettle this weekend! Have everything but the coffee. Think I'll use whole beans or maybe cruched a little. Also instead of adding the chocolate like the recipe state I think I'll just use 4 oz of the nibs soaked in vodka for 48 hrs like I do for my left hand chocolate stout. It's been said adding it to a fermenting beer will gas off some of the aroma and its worked well for me, and no oils or fat in the beer. Any thought on this before the big day?
 
paguy said:
Well this is going to be boiling away in the kettle this weekend! Have everything but the coffee. Think I'll use whole beans or maybe cruched a little. Also instead of adding the chocolate like the recipe state I think I'll just use 4 oz of the nibs soaked in vodka for 48 hrs like I do for my left hand chocolate stout. It's been said adding it to a fermenting beer will gas off some of the aroma and its worked well for me, and no oils or fat in the beer. Any thought on this before the big day?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't soak them in vodka. I would roast them @ 350 for 12 minutes & add to secondary in a muslin bag.. 2-3 days to taste. 4 oz

I would add the coffee the same way. 2-3 oz of whole sumatran coffee lightly cracked in a muslin bag, 1-2 days in secondary.
 

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