apfelwein with sluggish fermentation

I bought 5 gallons of fresh apple cider from a cider mill up in Oak Glen, CA and decided to follow EdWort's apfelwein recipe. The only variations I made to his recipe were the addition of 5 Campden tablets (erring on the side of caution) and the creation of a yeast starter instead of pitching the yeast dry. The cider itself had a specific gravity of 1.070 and after adding two pounds of dextrose, it increased to 1.080. I'm expecting a final ABV of about 10.5%.

However, the fermentation got off to a very sluggish start so I examined the jugs more closely and realized the cider contained less than 0.1% of sodium benzoate. A couple of days later, I built up another massive yeast starter by gradually increasing its volume over the course of a day and added that to the primary. The fermentation sped up a bit but still was noticeably slower than other wines I've made. Three weeks later, it's slowing to a crawl around 1.021, just over 7.5% ABV.

I know stabilizer doesn't actually kill yeast (it interferes with yeast reproduction) so I'm assuming the yeast cells are gradually dying off but not being replaced with new ones. I'm thinking about creating another starter, growing the population as large as I can, and adding that in to finish the job. Any recommendations?

I'm also concerned about transferring the apfelwein into a secondary. I wasn't expecting the fermentation to take this long, and three weeks in the primary with all that headspace is probably asking for trouble. It is beginning to develop an unusual yeasty, bready flavor, sort of like when I made a batch of kilju with turbo yeast earlier this year. I'm not sure if that's because of the benzoate or exposure to oxygen. It's not bad but it's not what I expect from a commercial cider. Perhaps this is what everyone means when they say apfelwein is an acquired taste.

A final concern is carbonation. Ideally, I'd like to bottle condition it and make it sparkling. If it's having this much trouble with the stabilizer, what if I bottle it with priming sugar and it just stops, leaving me with an overly sweet beverage? What about the idea of bottling it before it's fully dry? I don't know what sort of gravity would be appropriate in order to avoid bottle bombs. That happened to a bottle of homemade sangria in my kitchen once and I never want to have to clean up a mess like that again.

So much benzoate and then campden is definitely the cause.. those yeast are likely stressed to their limits. Bottle carbing is going to be a real excercise in patience.

Edwort's Apfelwein is usually made with bottled juice that only has vitamin c added (if that) and no campden tablets. When you modify the recipe this much, you've really got a different beast, and all bets are off.

Yet I will try the last. I've rescued a botched bochet before and turned it into something drinkable. I'll try adding another starter and see if I can ferment it to dryness.

You might add some yeast nutrient/energizer when you add your extra starter, it will help the yeast to overcome the preservatives. Also, while less headspace is better, active fermentation generates CO2, which will form a layer over the surface of the must & protect it from oxidation.
Regards, GF.

I made another Montrachet starter on 11/6, built it up overnight, and then pitched it on 11/7, along with some Fermax. I also added some pectic enzyme and lysozyme a couple of days later to help clarify it and eliminate the possibility of malolactic fermentation. I generally use lysozyme as a precaution whether a wine needs it or not but in this case, I was beginning to smell a slight vinegar odor, probably from spending all this time in the carboy with extra headspace. On 11/9 I checked the gravity again. It's still 1.020, the same as it was earlier this week. I racked it into a three gallon carboy and a couple of one gallon jugs to minimize oxygen exposure since this may be fermenting for a long time to come. The airlock continues to bubble but the gravity doesn't seem to change. I'm not sure if it's ever going to reach 1.000 and I'm worried about bottle bombs. Bottle conditioning is probably out of the question now. Fortunately, I have some kegs and a CO2 tank so I can force carbonate it if I buy one of those pressurized bottling wands. I guess at this point, though, I either have to wait an unknown amount of time for it to ferment to dryness (if it ever does) or stop it with meta and benzoate (although it already has some of that). What about that stove top pasteurization method in the sticky post? Has anyone ever tried that and had a bottle explode?

I tried the stove top pasteurization on a heavily carbed batch and blew up 2 out of 10 bottles.

Making kilju with turbo yeast? Are you a Finn?

In any case, apple juice is extremely slow to ferment. I have made around 15 x 5 gallon batches with only apple juice, sugar, and yeast, and it always takes at least a month to ferment dry. I've tried it with dry yeast, rehydrated yeast, large starter, bottom fermenting yeast, top fermenting yeast, etc. Always the same long fermentation time.

I have been thinking that perhaps adding some raisins to the next batch would speed up the process by giving the yeast more nutrients.

No, I made kilju for the novelty of it and also because I was curious to know what the fermentation of sugar alone (no fruit) tastes and smells like. It's definitely an acquired taste (and mine ended up with high residual sugar) so it's just sitting in jugs for now. Maybe I'll find a use for it one day. It's going to be the test subject for my Mini Jet filter once I get around to setting it up.

That's too bad apfelwein takes so long to ferment dry. I'm glad I transfered it to a carboy where it will be safe until then. Since some of it is in one gallon jugs I'm going to experiment with American oak in one and French oak in the other, for comparison.

I guess I won't try that stove top pasteurization technique. The safety of that procedure sounded questionable when I read it. I seriously hope I never have to clean up another bottle bomb. The glass shards manage to find their way into every part of the room.

The big carboy formed a krausen in the neck and has been bubbling steadily since I racked it. However, I checked it with the hydrometer last night and it still reads 1.020. I thought at least I'd see it change by one mark by now.

duffrecords said:

The big carboy formed a krausen in the neck and has been bubbling steadily since I racked it. However, I checked it with the hydrometer last night and it still reads 1.020. I thought at least I'd see it change by one mark by now.

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What are you dropping your hydrometer into? Is it clinging onto the side of the sampling vessel? Hydrometers have a way of doing that. At least the ones that are in the price range of homebrewers.

I put the hydrometer inside a wine thief and pulled a sample out, then released it back into the carboy. I'll try again later and look more closely but I don't think it's sticking.

I cannot get my hydrometer to stay away from the inside edge of my wine thief, it simply does not work. I bought a graduated cylinder and use that for taking hydrometer measurements. That works just fine.

It's at 1.018 as of November 16. I've been giving the carboys a quick spin whenever I have a chance, which agitates the lees/trub and releases a rush of tiny bubbles up into the neck. I'm going to make a big EC-1118 starter tonight. If that stuff can't do the job, little else will.

duffrecords said:

It's at 1.018 as of November 16. I've been giving the carboys a quick spin whenever I have a chance, which agitates the lees/trub and releases a rush of tiny bubbles up into the neck. I'm going to make a big EC-1118 starter tonight. If that stuff can't do the job, little else will.

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I'm interested to hear how it goes as well. I want 1 week turnaround time in my cider, just I get with my stout. Hell, I'm even tempted to try some coopers ale yeast in my cider next time.

I'd like to see someone try to ferment cider in one week. I imagine it would require extra yeast nutrient; some acid addition to reach the right pH; and possibly some grapes, grape juice concentrate, or ripe bananas for a more ideal sugar content. One of my strongest, fastest fermentations was a banana wine. Aerating the must before pitching the yeast might help, too. And, as always, it's good to develop a strong yeast starter according to these directions.

duffrecords said:

I'd like to see someone try to ferment cider in one week.

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Here we have it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/faster-finishing-cider-443425/#post5676754

Still 1.018! The airlock continues to bubble, although this could simply be the release of dissolved gas. I tried to make two more EC-1118 starters but they both seemed to die before I could pitch them. Maybe it's the natural fig juice or the pinch of Fermax I added to the starter, or maybe both sachets were from a bad batch. I'm all out of EC-1118 now but I received a package of distiller's yeast the other day so tonight I think I'll pull out all the stops.

I hydrated 10g of distiller's yeast in 1/2 cup of distilled water and let it soak for 15 minutes. Then I stirred in 1/2 tsp of sugar. Holy crap, this yeast came on like Gang Busters! It didn't smell as good as other strains but it looks stronger than all the others. I let it grow for another half hour and then added it to my carboys. They've all got lots of tiny bubbles rising into the neck now. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Well, the distiller's yeast slowed down to a crawl before long. However...

Yesterday I decided to move one of the jugs up off the floor and next to the wall heater. I measured the specific gravity this morning and it was 1.014! Progress! I moved the other jug and carboy into the same area and dumped in about a teaspoon of dry distiller's yeast. It went nuts and by the evening, the neck of each container was still fizzing like a freshly uncapped soda bottle. It must have been too cold on the floor.

I also added some French and American oak into the two jugs, respectively, leaving the 3 gallon carboy as is. For each one, i measured 2 grams of oak chips into an empty teabag, boiled it in some water for a few minutes to sterilize it, then tied a piece of sanitized, unflavored dental floss to it. I feed the other end of the floss through the bung and airlock and tied it to the floating cap inside the airlock (the 3-piece kind). Now I can easily remove the chips once the apfelwein reaches the desired level of oak. I'll be tasting it frequently to assess it (and consulting with my girlfriend, who has a better sense of taste and smell then I).

I cracked the problem: DAP.

Nope. I added 5 tsp of Fermax a few days ago, followed by a few spoonfuls of distiller's yeast. There was visible fermentation for about a day but then it slowed down almost to a stop. I checked it with a hydrometer today and the gravity is still the same as the last time. If I give the carboy a quick spin, it releases some large bubbles from the lees but then they stop. I guess the sodium benzoate is too much for the yeast. Maybe I should focus on stopping the fermentation, rather than restarting it. I do have a Mini Jet filter that I could use to sterile filter the apfelwein. That would also give it a nice sparkling clear finish.