Drunken Farmers' Hopped Saison Cyser

Drunken Farmer's Hopped Sai-ser (Saison Cyser)

Was going to wait to post this recipe until I got it perfected but after tasting this while bottling last night I am so impressed that I have to post it for feedback.

1 gallon batch, 30 minute boil

1 gallon Pure brand water with added potassium bicarbonate. (it does have other mineral additives but I find no off tastes and it has noticeable helped my cysers finish faster and taste better)
2lbs Manitoban white clover honey (I use this varietal simply because I get free 5 gallon buckets of it)
1/2oz Centennial hops @ 30 min
1/2oz Centennial hops @ 15 min
1/2gal Apple juice
Belle Saison yeast

Place apple juice in freezer to chill if warm. Bring water and 1lb of honey to a boil, stirring to dissolve. Set timer and add hops. At 15 add remaining hops. Remove from heat. Strain out hops. You should have around a 1/2 gallon of must left at this point. Add remaining 1lb of honey and stir to dissolve. Add 1/2 gallon chilled apple juice. This brought my must down to about 70 and a corrected OG of 1.085.
Pitch yeast. Mine fermented around 65-70 but did see fluctuations up to 90 because of my wood stove. At 2 weeks, cold crash and bottle with 1 cup of water and 2 tablespoons honey in 12oz beer bottles.

Do the hops come through??? I thought they needed to be boiled with wort (something about enzymes in the wort???...or is that just for bittering?) ....I dunno, but...cyser with the right hops could be interesting, for sure...keep us posted!!!
<edit> Heck yeah, I'd be using Manitoban white clover honey too, if I got that kind of deal...nice score...do you keep bees, or...?

fuelish said:

Do the hops come through??? I thought they needed to be boiled with wort (something about enzymes in the wort???...or is that just for bittering?) ....I dunno, but...cyser with the right hops could be interesting, for sure...keep us posted!!!
<edit> Heck yeah, I'd be using Manitoban white clover honey too, if I got that kind of deal...nice score...do you keep bees, or...?

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Yes, the hops come through nicely. They are added during the 30 minute boil with 1/2oz at 30 and 1/2oz at 15, then strained out at flameout before adding 2nd pound of honey.

Even tasting this pre carbed was fantastic. When my 3 gallon batch is finished I will be bottling some still in 750ml bottles and aging it.

I based this very loosely on the meadist.com blog's "Welcome, This is a Farmhouse" Saison Mead.

Although the original recipe asked to age for 4 months, this is fantastic uncarbed at 2 1/2 weeks.

We don't keep bees yet but the wife plans to add 2 hives this year surrounded by a half acre of custom planned "wildflowers". The reason for this is that most 'wildflower' honey is mostly just goldenrod.

I should also mention this finished a touch lower than 1.02. Everyone says that Belle Saison is a beast at recommended temps which is why I worked at a lower temp. It will probably ferment nearly dry with more spicy notes at temps around 85-90.

I have a 3 gallon batch of this going right now. I'm going to up the priming sugar on this batch. Looking back at my notes, I saw that I actually only used 1 1/2 tablespoons of honey to prime. I went that low because of the 'everyday ipa' batch I bottled a few weeks prior being over-primed after only 1 week using less than brooklyn brew shops recommended priming amount. At 1 week of this cyser being bottled there is very little carbonation. I think that I plan to use between 2 and 2 1/2 tablespoons per gallon when I bottle the 3 gallon batch.

After 2 weeks bottled this stuff is phenomenal, no other words just phenomenal.

This looks cool. Can you expound a bit more on your water profile and how you altered it? I see you used NaHCO3, but you mention some other stuff. What were your water goals with this specific recipe?

Edit: how did it turn out with a bit more age on it?

I've got a 2.5 gallon batch of this going right now. I only intended it to be 2 gallons, so I used 4 lbs mesquite honey, but my boil-off rate must have been low, so it ended up closer to 2.5 gallons. Should be interesting.

I pitched over a month ago, on 4/16, and I still saw 1 airlock burp in 2 minutes this morning, so I'm going to let it go another week. It's fermenting in my closet around 75-80 degrees.

hammersteps said:

This looks cool. Can you expound a bit more on your water profile and how you altered it? I see you used NaHCO3, but you mention some other stuff. What were your water goals with this specific recipe?

Edit: how did it turn out with a bit more age on it?

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Sorry for the wait on my reply, we've been extremely busy this spring.

I actually didn't add anything to the water. I used a brand of bottled water called Pure, that happened to have the potassium bicarbonate in it as well as something else.

I saved 2 bottles of the 1 gallon batch and actually just tried one about a week ago and I think it has a fantastic profile. Almost a saison mead. The longer it sits the more mead-like in quality it becomes. It does still have a slightly hoppy nose but it fades with time.

My 3 gallon batch was screwed up. I kept it at 60-65 for a month and it never made it below 1.029 so I ramped temps up to around 90 for about 3 days and it became very peppery with a very hot alcohol taste due to it going completely dry. It is still aging in the carboy.

I actually have about 14 gallons of beer/mead (DF's Sugar Shack Mishap [dark Belgian], Maple Sap Rye Kolsch, Spiced Hibiscus braggot, DF's hopped saison cyser, and a test batch of belle saison quick mead) that all need to be bottled ASAP so that I can start my dry yeast bomm experiments but just haven't had time.

The 3 gallon batch of hopped cyser will be split 1/3 uncarbed 750 bottles and 2/3 carbed beer bottles.

Rowdy50 said:

I've got a 2.5 gallon batch of this going right now. I only intended it to be 2 gallons, so I used 4 lbs mesquite honey, but my boil-off rate must have been low, so it ended up closer to 2.5 gallons. Should be interesting.

I pitched over a month ago, on 4/16, and I still saw 1 airlock burp in 2 minutes this morning, so I'm going to let it go another week. It's fermenting in my closet around 75-80 degrees.

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Please let me know how it goes for you! My first batch was and still is fantastic but I don't have high hopes for the 3 gallon since everything that could go wrong, did!

I guess I don't understand the reason for boiling the honey. When I make hopped meads I boil the water with the hops, allow the water to cool and then mix with the honey. That ensures that all the volatile flavor and aromatic molecules in the honey stay in the mead and are not boiled off.
I also allow the mead to age 4 - 6 months or longer before I bottle - you get a far brighter and clear mead

Personally, I don't care whether or not my beverage is clear, if it tastes good. Was the first glass clear? No, not entirely. Was it good? Yes. Was there a large amount of lees and sediment of all sorts after 3 months sitting in a bottle? No, which tells me it was nearly clear when it was bottled.

The 3 gallon carboy I have has been sitting since I racked it over to it just 2 weeks after it was started back in February. It is crystal clear like glass and there is no more than an 1/8 inch of lees at the bottom.

To answer your question on boiling hops in plain water, I have nearly always been disgusted by that grassy, vegetal taste it produces and I think if you will do a quick search online you will find that most recommendations are to boil hops with some form of sugars, be it malts/honey/etc.

And to further clarify my explanation, I do not like losing the volatile flavor and aromatic molecules that are partially, not entirely, lost through boiling, hence the reason for not using the entire amount of honey called for in the full recipe during the boil.

By the way, didn't you already mention this on the Meadist.com blog? Pretty sure he gave you an answer similar to what I just mentioned

Hey man, I just pulled my first bottle out..only difference is I used Fuggles, tap water, and upped the honey to 2.25tbl/gal for priming. Turned out fan freaking tastic. Made it for my wife, so I know she will like it. thanks for a fun, easy recipe. Putting in a three gallon batch of this with centennial on sunday.

HawleyFarms said:

Once my radish acer-sai-ser test batch and my hopped english cider batch is done, I'm going to start 4 or 5 different 1 gallon test batches of the hopped saison cyser to try and tweak the recipe until I get it to exactly where I want it.

I posted my recipe in the mead forum but it is still a work in progress. Once I get it perfect, I will get it into the recipes section.

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curious on results. As my sig says, I have a three gal batch of this with centennial at 30, 15, 0. Smells awesome. Went with 2/3 honey, 1/3 light dme.

hammersteps said:

Hey man, I just pulled my first bottle out..only difference is I used Fuggles, tap water, and upped the honey to 2.25tbl/gal for priming. Turned out fan freaking tastic. Made it for my wife, so I know she will like it. thanks for a fun, easy recipe. Putting in a three gallon batch of this with centennial on sunday.

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Glad to hear you liked it!! Fuggles would be awesome in this! I only used the centennial as a trial since I got a pound dirt cheap.

So....I'm going a little funky with this one. Posting for feedback.

3 gal batch.
3 gal boil.

3 gal primo brand water with added NaHCO3.
1.5 gal JW Knudsen apple juice
4lb honey unfiltered, raw
1lb 12oz golden light dme
1oz Centennial (30)
.5oz fuggles (30)
1.5oz fuggles (15)
Belle saison yeast

All directions same as original post. added half honey, half dme, and 30 min hops at boil. Added 15min hops. Added remaining dme and honey at flameout. Cooled down with apple juice. Pitched at 69F. SG of 1.071.

the most recent version came out fantastic. Getting better every time. Next one will be a little less bittering hops, and add some at flameout instead.

Just wanted to post an update. Finally got the 3 gallon batch bottled that I started in March/April. Decided to bottle it still and let it age as it's still a bit hot. Will probably not suggest or try ramping up temps at the end of ferment like I did with that batch.

On a side note, I had been keeping a bottle from my first batch hidden away with one bottle each of about 11 different brews for my Dad and I to do a tasting and it aged excellent! Great flavor, a hint of grapefruit and the apple really pops. Not a ton of hoppiness to it but still excellent.

hammersteps said:

the most recent version came out fantastic. Getting better every time. Next one will be a little less bittering hops, and add some at flameout instead.

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Any new updates on your experiments? Thinking of trying a 1 gallon with DME and 1 of the other varieties of hops in my freezer.

HawleyFarms said:

Any new updates on your experiments? Thinking of trying a 1 gallon with DME and 1 of the other varieties of hops in my freezer.

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The latest recipe is this:

3 gal batch.
3 gal boil.

3 gal primo brand water with added NaHCO3.
1.5 gal JW Knudsen apple juice
4lb honey unfiltered, raw
1lb 12oz golden light dme
.5oz Centennial (30)
1oz fuggles (15)
1oz fuggles (0)
Belle saison yeast

It's good man. I really like it. I won't be changing it.

hammersteps said:

The latest recipe is this:

3 gal batch.
3 gal boil.

3 gal primo brand water with added NaHCO3.
1.5 gal JW Knudsen apple juice
4lb honey unfiltered, raw
1lb 12oz golden light dme
.5oz Centennial (30)
1oz fuggles (15)
1oz fuggles (0)
Belle saison yeast

It's good man. I really like it. I won't be changing it.

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Haha...just looked at this again. I'm much more sober now

it's 1.25 gal water for the boil and top up after adding near freezing apple juice. I use a 3gal fermenter and top up after primary.

So I have 11 lbs of honey, 1.5 gallons of apple cider and 2 lbs of dates- figs-raisins going into a 5 gallon batch..... How much pectic enzyme you think I need?

FermentedFruit said:

So I have 11 lbs of honey, 1.5 gallons of apple cider and 2 lbs of dates- figs-raisins going into a 5 gallon batch..... How much pectic enzyme you think I need?

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Honestly, I've never had any problems with haze so I have never used pectic enzyme.

FermentedFruit said:

So I have 11 lbs of honey, 1.5 gallons of apple cider and 2 lbs of dates- figs-raisins going into a 5 gallon batch..... How much pectic enzyme you think I need?

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I also almost never use pectic enzyme but for this I would use loveofrose's step feeding sched for the BOMM and if you just have to use it, 1.5-2.5 tsp. You are pretty low on fruit and normally it's 1/10tsp per lb of fruit, but you have the apple juice in there....prolly 2tsp.

Thank ye

I assume the yeast makes this recipe? I have S04 on hand.... What do you think?

smAllGrain said:

I assume the yeast makes this recipe? I have S04 on hand.... What do you think?

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Give it a shot and report back! I have only used belle on this recipe but I'm sure others could be good as well.

I'm going to try a more typical saison blend on it soon but i'm just not a huge fan of regular ale yeasts when it comes to ciders/cysers. If you follow the more beer-like recipe above, a regular ale yeast would be great I think.

Hi HawleyFarms, hammersteps - can you tell me what kind of FG reading you typically get with your saison recipes?

Bump - just reading through this and interested as well. Likely going to brew this in a few weeks

bernardsmith said:

I guess I don't understand the reason for boiling the honey. When I make hopped meads I boil the water with the hops, allow the water to cool and then mix with the honey. That ensures that all the volatile flavor and aromatic molecules in the honey stay in the mead and are not boiled off...

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I saw a couple posts asking why boil hops with the honey.
The reason is that the alpha acids that add the bittering will bond with the sugars and retain the flavor better.

habrew said:

I saw a couple posts asking why boil hops with the honey.
The reason is that the alpha acids that add the bittering will bond with the sugars and retain the flavor better.

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habrew - Thanks but I am always the skeptic.
1) the hop tea will be used to create a must with the honey just as soon as the tea has cooled enough so as not to boil off any of the volatile aromatics contained in the honey. The bonding won't happen then? And
2. This is for mead - not beer. There is no necessary residual sweetness that the acidity of the hops is being asked to counter-balance. Too much acidity will over-balance the mead and my thinking is that with a hopped mead I am looking for the hop flavors and not the acidity itself. (Honey is in and of itself quite tart - or more accurately can have a very low pH. So I guess I still don't see the value or the necessity of damaging the honey in order to boil the hops. Brewers love heat - wine makers tend to avoid fire except as a very, very last resort.

If you only want flavor then you should not be boiling or steeping the hops. The boil breaks down the aromatic oils but release the bitterness. You may want to add hops as a 2nd ferment addition or later.

edit: Typing with thumbs