Should I make a starter from a smack-pack?

Hi all,

This Sunday we'll be making a Saison Dupont clone (with an all-extract recipe). When I received my ingredients in the mail I noticed that the Belgian abbey ale yeast was a smack pack. Now, I've never used a smack pack before, but I have made starters for my bigger beers, with success.

Do I make a starter from this smack pack? If so, when; 24 hours, 48 hours before pitching? And are there any negatives associated with doing so?

Thanks.

If you have the time you should. Consult http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html to see how much you should pitch. I usually start mine 48 hours or so before brewing. Longer wont hurt though

For a saison, I wouldn't make a starter. The yeast working to reproduce and stressing it a little will work to your advantage. Read up on it if you'd like, but I think that underpitching on most belgian styles is beneficial.

Well, I value everyone's opinion here but this may be the first time I've gotten advice taking me in two opposite directions. Any other votes?

rockout said:

Well, I value everyone's opinion here but this may be the first time I've gotten advice taking me in two opposite directions. Any other votes?

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Well, I'd typically agree on making a starter. It is great to get your population up on your yeast to avoid the strain of reproduction in the wort. However, that reproduction produces esters that are desirable in a saison. You can make a starter if you'd like, I'm just going on my own personal experience.

Glad to hear you've got specific experience with a saison! Can I also ask you, how long do you leave yours in the primary, and secondary? And what temperature is most desirable for each?

thanks!

rockout said:

Glad to hear you've got specific experience with a saison! Can I also ask you, how long do you leave yours in the primary, and secondary? And what temperature is most desirable for each?

thanks!

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I've played around with a few different ideas with saisons. I really like how flexible temps are when you're using saison yeasts. Most people will start in the low to mid 60's and ramp up to high 70s and 80s. I start mine at 72 and ramp up to the 80s. I haven't had any issues. The lower you keep the temps though, the longer your ferment will take. The saison yeast is very slow at lower temps and people have had stuck ferments that lasted well more than a month with them.

So my typical experience with the yeast (I use the White Labs strains) is that I am usually good after a week, but I leave EVERYTHING in my fermenter for two weeks. I have yet to secondary a saison, as the style is just fine when cloudy and there are no major benefits to a secondary for the style.

As a rule I don't secondary most thigns anymore. I cold crash to clear a bit and then go straight to keg. I am in secondary on an inperial stout with oak cubes in it and I will be in secondary for my flanders red and a dark strong I plan on infecting with brett soon, but I don't really ever use it otherwise.

Wow, this would be a new thing for me. So I wouldn't want to use a bucket, right? Just throw the wort right into my glass carboy that I normally use as a secondary? (I do have a blow-off tube)

I also bottle, rather than keg.... after my fermentation is done, do I throw the carboy into my basement fridge? and for how long? It's at 40 degrees right now because there's 50 bottles of Oktoberfest in there right now, waiting for me to crack them open this September. But there's room for the carboy.

rockout said:

Wow, this would be a new thing for me. So I wouldn't want to use a bucket, right? Just throw the wort right into my glass carboy that I normally use as a secondary? (I do have a blow-off tube)

I also bottle, rather than keg.... after my fermentation is done, do I throw the carboy into my basement fridge? and for how long? It's at 40 degrees right now because there's 50 bottles of Oktoberfest in there right now, waiting for me to crack them open this September. But there's room for the carboy.

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I just cold crash to get the sediment to settle as much as possible and I keg (and when I bottled, I'd to the same) right off the yeast. I don't crash everything because some of it is settled enough. I kegged a porter last night that just didn't need it. Essentially I do it for a day or two just to get anything I don't want out of suspension. Sometimes it takes a few days, but you get the basic idea.

Again, cold crashing is totally optional and really unnecessary if you think your beer is clear enough.

You can still primary in your bucket. It doesn't make a bit of difference. I primary in glass carboys, but I've come across a ton of them in the time I've been brewing, so I've just used them the whole time. Either way, I'd start with a blow off tube. Saison yeasts can be fairly volatile.

There are a lot of threads around the internets about skipping secondary altogether and I suggest reading them. They might make things just a bit easier on you.

I will try all of that.

Just to pump some more info out of you, I thought of another question. I used spring water in the big 5 gallon bottle for my first 2 batches, then abandoned that for good ol' tap water ever since. The beers have always tasted fine; in fact, since I didn't know what I was doing for the first two, they've tasted better.

But since a Saison is kind of a special style, what's your opinion? Tap water or bottled?

First off, make a starter. The esters you're looking for from "stressing" the yeast will come from high temps. I've never had good luck with non-startered smack packs/vials, even if they are a style which benefits from esters.

If the beer tastes fine, then keep using the tap water. Saison's not a "special" style, it's just another style of beer, like any other. IIWY, I'd get an RV water filter, though.

Okay, so now I'm back to making a starter, and I guess I'll keep using my tap water. For a smack pack, how early would you make the starter?