Cleaning Equipment

I know the imporrtance of sanitation and use StarSan and Idophor. However, I think my cleaning habits are not up to par. Can someone tell me what is as close to a sure fire way to clean carboys/buckets, equipment, etc.? What products are best to use for cleaning?

oxyclean and something called pbw are typical for getting gunk out. I don't think you are supposed to use it on alluminum though.

This is my process (and I'm a cheap bastard)

Rinse thoroughly with hot water, sometimes I fill completely all the way to the top sometimes just halfway and shake it around a bunch.

Then I use an all natural soap, few squirts fill all the way let sit for a minute allowing the runoff to coat around the threads, tips caps etc. Rinse well same procedure

then I add a tablespoon of brewery sanitizer from Austin homebrew. Fill up quarter of the way in carboy, bucket or equivalent of a gallon of water to whatever container. Shake vigorously to dissolve the particles and coat all around the container. Let sit for a minute than vigorously shake it all around. Rinse 3-4 times with hot water

99% of the time this method get's rid of all hardened matter inside carboys with no brush, and will also get all the natural soap out from previous (actually see the foam from the soap after rinsing out the soap prior).

I never use soap on any of my gear. I use oxiclean or PBW for cleaning, and it does a great job. I have some plastic, glass, and stainless, as well as silicone hoses and my March pump. I have electric elements and copper coils. Of course, either PBW or oxiclean must be rinsed well, but both work well at cleaning.

don't let your dirty equipment sit around. rinse your kegs when there empty or your bottles when you sober up in the morning. oxyclean and starsan is what i use. after i transfer my beer to keg from glass fermenter i soak it in oxyclean for half the day, rinse like crazy and its clean as a whistle. no brushes. good luck

For SS kettles, Bar Keeper's Friend does wonders (inside and out)... Otherwise PBW/oxyclean works well too.

I think most have missed the point. Cleaning is always a 2 step process, a cleaning and a sanitizing steps. For Cleaning I use Bleach, and some times beerline cleaner. SI some times soak in PBW or oxyclean. Then I always sanitize after that, with starsan with distilled water in a spray bottle. I visit other brewers and I often see a white film over everything, this is beer stone and once the infections get into that you will never get rid of them till you remove the film. Bleach is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner in my book, one of the best. It will kill everything i come in contact with.

yodalegomaster, while both cleaning and sanitizing are extremely important (critical at different stages), they can be two processes, not parts of one. You can clean your gear right after a brew is done, but not sanitize them until the next brew day, with zero ill effects..

Personally, you won't find me using chlorine/bleach anywhere near my brewing equipment. Don't care how good it might clean, it's nasty stuff to people too. IMO, better to use PBW/oxyclean/BKF and elbow grease to get the job done. A healthy hit of StarSan does the sanitizing part... I pour quarts of it into my ferementers, or bottling bucket, to get good contact everywhere. When bottling, I cover the bucket (all the time) with a StarSan soaked cloth/towel. When brewing, I have the bung in the ferementer (with the airlock hole covered) until just before I'm ready to fill it.

Basically, if you establish solid practices early on, or early enough, you won't have issue. To go to the extreme of using bleach, IMO, is too far over the top.

yodalegomaster said:

I think most have missed the point. Cleaning is always a 2 step process, a cleaning and a sanitizing steps. For Cleaning I use Bleach, and some times beerline cleaner. SI some times soak in PBW or oxyclean. Then I always sanitize after that, with starsan with distilled water in a spray bottle. I visit other brewers and I often see a white film over everything, this is beer stone and once the infections get into that you will never get rid of them till you remove the film. Bleach is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner in my book, one of the best. It will kill everything i come in contact with.

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White film does not necessarily indicate beer stone. In fact, most of the time it is a result of hard water. My siphon lines get hazy/white on the inside after a soak in Starsan. Not beer stone. The same can happen in kettles/buckets/carboys. Vinegar is usually great at clearing this up.

Golddiggie said:

Basically, if you establish solid practices early on, or early enough, you won't have issue. To go to the extreme of using bleach, IMO, is too far over the top.

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Agreed! I won't resort to bleach until I get a noticeable infection (havent had one in 30+ batches). Even then I would probably just do a thorough star-san soak of all equipment. I know alot of people use bleach in low concentrations but to me its not worth it.

kpr121 said:

Agreed! I won't resort to bleach until I get a noticeable infection (havent had one in 30+ batches). Even then I would probably just do a thorough star-san soak of all equipment. I know alot of people use bleach in low concentrations but to me its not worth it.

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Personally, anything I have that can get an infection, can either be easily cleaned (and it removed with 100% certainty) or easily replaced (plastic)... I ferment in SS now, so that's one worry gone. I'm researching machine shops that can help me to make a SS autosiphon. I want to get to the point where anything that could get an infection, has a replacement already waiting. Tubes, airlocks, bungs, etc... Everything else will be risk free, if it's not already. :rockin:

BTW, I do so enjoy fermenting in sanke kegs... Used one of my new 25L for last Sunday's batch... Got one more that size, and one pony keg in the wings... Planning on getting at least one more to have four (maybe five) total to use. I expect these things to last longer than I do.

+1 Oxyclean I specifically use Oxyfree, the unscented kind. I also have some PBW for my SS kettles when they get REALLY bad. Starsan for sanitizing.

Instead of shaking a 1/2 full carboy check out the DIY carboy washers madee with a bucket and pump. I love mine!

Yepp stainless is where it is at!!! When I first started brewing I thought that it was shiny and over-expensive. Now I catch myself 'borrowing' the quarter barrel sankes from the distributor to ferment a batch or two when I run out of buckets. I'd love to switch to all stainless someday.

That stainless autosiphon sounds interesting.

Shoot me a PM and I'll let you know if I can get one made...

I know someone that uses CAD software daily. I might be able to get him to design it up so that I can get it fabricated easily. It's really not that complicated, except I want the business end to have threaded fittings so that it can be disassembled for cleaning/sanitizing with ease. :rockin: Plus, I'll probably want it made from 304 SS and be able to use existing SS racking canes that are available... Should probably get one of those so that they can test fit with it... hmmmmm Need to work on this over the coming week...

Golddiggie said:

Shoot me a PM and I'll let you know if I can get one made...

I know someone that uses CAD software daily. I might be able to get him to design it up so that I can get it fabricated easily. It's really not that complicated, except I want the business end to have threaded fittings so that it can be disassembled for cleaning/sanitizing with ease. :rockin: Plus, I'll probably want it made from 304 SS and be able to use existing SS racking canes that are available... Should probably get one of those so that they can test fit with it... hmmmmm Need to work on this over the coming week...

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Yeah I cant see this being that hard. You should be able to replace the outside tubing with a stainless equivalent, and use a regular stainless racking cane (everyone should have one of these BTW). I have gone away from the autosiphon since my first broke, its easy to start a siphon by pouring sanitizer in the tubing using a cup to me.

Hardest part could be the one way valve in the bottom of the outer tube... I can see that being an issue, if they can't get something 'off the shelf' to do the job. Once it's all worked out, it should be easy enough to make the outer tube whatever length you want. It might make more sense to fabricate the cane at the same time, to ensure proper fit.

I've already looked up a few shops in my area. Just need to call them. I'll look up some more in the area where I'm working right now, to see if anyone there can help out too.

It's not rocket science here... Just making something good, much better.

yodalegomaster said:

Bleach is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner in my book, one of the best. It will kill everything i come in contact with.

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"Kill everything" is the job of a sanitizer, not a cleaner. And, strictly speaking, this is actually sterilization, not sanitization. Bleach is indeed a sanitizer, just not a no-rinse sanitizer.

I have used bleach to loosen gunk out of the bottoms of beer bottles. I have also used it as a sanitizer. But with bleach, you'd better make sure you get things well-rinsed.

Is the Oxyclean everyone uses the clothing detergent or do they make a dish type product?

unionrdr said:

The same stuff used on cloths. And all the labels on five star PBW I ever bought say "no rinse".? I don't rinse after the PBW,& everything's been just fine. That stuff will soak anything clean! And I mean to the point where I just use one of those blue paper shop towels to wipe the loose,mushy gunk off. It'll even clean the spigots & threads. Everything.
Then just rinse with star-san at the right moment,& I'm good to go.

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You just might want to refresh your memory on what the labels say on PBW.

From the directions on the Fivestarchemicals.com website for PBW:

"GENERAL USE DIRECTIONS
CIRCULATION CLEANING: Use 1 to 3 ounces per gallon depending on soil load.
Heat to 130° to 180° F for 30 minutes.

CARBON REMOVAL: Use 6 to 8 ounces per gallon of water. Heat to 140 ° F for 4 hours or allow to soak cold overnight.

When using P.B.W. in food processing areas the equipment that has been
cleaned must be rinsed with potable water. Just prior to use, sanitize the
equipment in accordance with public health standards."

unionrdr said:

That's NOT what it says on the lil bags of the stuff I get. Ever. If it isn't,then it should say so. It's never had any adverse effects on anyone or anything around me.

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Strange they would print contradicting labels on their products... All the jars I have say it should be rinsed.


I also use PBW and Star San for sanitation.
Recently, I picked up a mild infection during bottling. I still haven't pinpointed exactly where it was, but ended up replacing my bucket, spigot, tubing, etc. and bleaching all my bottles.

I never understood the notion that replacing plastic is so cheap: $75 later I have new bottling equipment and some peace of mind (much more once my next batch doesn't have any issues; fingers crossed,) but that's certainly not cheap.

The bottle bleaching was a last resort, precautionary measure since I'm not 100% certain Star San was killing whatever the problem was (it showed up while using Star San.) Again, peace of mind I suppose.

Hoping for the best!

FWIW, I believe the small bags were originally intended to be marketed for beer line cleaning. They were promoting the same product (PBW) to line cleaning techs. They packaged it in the small bags as a single dose to be dissolved in a typical beer line cleaner tank.

Their instructions for use in that application was to let the cleaner sit in the line and then just run the beer through to "rinse" the cleaner out. So the "no rinse" was a no water rinse for use as a beverage line cleaner.

When they decided to go after the homebrew market, I think they just changed the name of the product from Beverage Line Cleaner to PBW and left the instructions the same for the packet printing.

The instructions for PBW on the bulk containers always said to rinse after use.

nefarious_1_ said:

I never understood the notion that replacing plastic is so cheap: $75 later I have new bottling equipment and some peace of mind (much more once my next batch doesn't have any issues; fingers crossed,) but that's certainly not cheap.

Hoping for the best!

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I always think the same thing! People say it is so easy but when you are replacing two buckets, tubing, racking cane, autosiphon, etc it can add up pretty quickly.

When (if?) I get an infection, I will probably resort to a long hot bleach soak and rinse of everything. If I can narrow it down to a specific piece (and have the extra money) I will replace it. Preferably with stainless. But I've heard some horror stories of people having to replace their entire setups to get rid of a bug.

boomtown25 said:

I know the imporrtance of sanitation and use StarSan and Idophor. However, I think my cleaning habits are not up to par. Can someone tell me what is as close to a sure fire way to clean carboys/buckets, equipment, etc.? What products are best to use for cleaning?

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I spray everything down with hot water after brewing/bottling day. Then I use Carlson's Easy Clean, which is a no-rinse cleaner. After bottling, I run hot water, then Easy Clean through the spigot and bottling wand. I also siphon hot water and then Easy Clean through the siphon hose, followed by Starsan. I then take the spigot off the bucket, take the bottling wand apart, and remove the grommet from the fermenter lid, and soak them in Easy Clean for a few minutes. I use Oxyclean and a brass bottle washer to clean bottles.

kpr121 said:

I always think the same thing! People say it is so easy but when you are replacing two buckets, tubing, racking cane, autosiphon, etc it can add up pretty quickly.

When (if?) I get an infection, I will probably resort to a long hot bleach soak and rinse of everything. If I can narrow it down to a specific piece (and have the extra money) I will replace it. Preferably with stainless. But I've heard some horror stories of people having to replace their entire setups to get rid of a bug.

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Yea, well I'm not giving up on the old equipment yet, especially taking the price into account!

I'm definitely going to try to clean it and/or narrow the contamination down to one piece, but I have a batch that needs bottling and don't have time to troubleshoot right now. It's probably something stupid too, like a tiny scratch that I can't see or the spigot (which I always break down to clean,) but at least I have some extra backup equipment now.

So, essentially, if I used Carl's Easy Clean and Oxyclean, I really would not have to rinse, correct?

Also, do you clean and sanitize and store, or just clean, THEN santize before brew/bottle day?

boomtown25 said:

So, essentially, if I used Carl's Easy Clean and Oxyclean, I really would not have to rinse, correct?

Also, do you clean and sanitize and store, or just clean, THEN santize before brew/bottle day?

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You definitely should rinse Oxyclean, but it is counterproductive to rinse Easy Clean, since it is effective when wet. I only use Oxyclean for bottles, although there are many people who use it on equipment. I think One Step is very similar to Easy Clean. The only thing that I sanitize at the end of the day is the inside of the siphon hose, because it's going to be wet no matter what, and I would rather it be wet with Starsan, than anything else. Before brewing/bottling, everything gets sanitized. You probably know this, but keep anything abrasive,(steel wool, etc.), away from your buckets. Use a sponge or paper towel if necessary.

1) Never use bleach. You have to rise it COMPLETELY or risk clorophenol off-flavors in your beer. So your equipment ends up only as clean as your tap water after rinsing, rendering the use pointless (as a sanitizer - see 3). As a cleaner, it is an elephant gun for a mosquito.
2) AFTER equipment has been used, CLEAN it with oxyclean or similar (non-bleach) product. Rinse it. "no-rinse" is for sanitizing, not cleaning (see 3)
3) BEFORE equipment is used, SANITIZE it with a no-rinse sanitizer, such as starsan. again, rinsing a sanitizer gives you equipment only as sanitized as your water. in other words, not sanitized.

Malintent said:

1) Never use bleach. You have to rise it COMPLETELY or risk clorophenol off-flavors in your beer. So your equipment ends up only as clean as your tap water after rinsing, rendering the use pointless (as a sanitizer - see 3). As a cleaner, it is an elephant gun for a mosquito.
2) AFTER equipment has been used, CLEAN it with oxyclean or similar (non-bleach) product. Rinse it. "no-rinse" is for sanitizing, not cleaning (see 3)
3) BEFORE equipment is used, SANITIZE it with a no-rinse sanitizer, such as starsan. again, rinsing a sanitizer gives you equipment only as sanitized as your water. in other words, not sanitized.

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Easy Clean is a no-rinse cleaner. I agree that Oxyclean should be rinsed.

Never use bleach or you will die and burn in eternal hellfire.

nefarious_1_ said:

Never use bleach or you will die and burn in eternal hellfire.

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Once again,ladies & gentlemen,The Crazy World of Aurthur Brown! Give'em a hand!

For an in depth understanding on just what PBW is and more notably how to use it listen to the Brewing Network's Brew Strong segment on cleaning as it pertains to brewing equipment. Thats an 11/10/08 broadcast interview with the maker of the product. The interview starts at the 17 minute mark.

unionrdr said:

Once again,ladies & gentlemen,The Crazy World of Aurthur Brown! Give'em a hand!

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That was lost on the younger posters, unfortunately I remember "I am the god of hellfire!"

kpr121 said:

When (if?) I get an infection, I will probably resort to a long hot bleach soak and rinse of everything

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Don't use hot water with bleach; it causes the chlorine to out-gas too quickly. Use cold or room-temperature water.

Gentlemen,
Put the bleach back in the laundry room and walk away. Just walk away.

The reason I said to rinse whatever cleaner you choose to use is because it is not designed to sanitize, so you lose nothing by rinsing with tap water. There is nothing to gain by not rinsing it out (even if it says "no-rinse"). I can't imagine why anyone would choose to leave any kind of residue on their gear. It just makes no sense. sure, it won;t kill you.. but is that what you want people saying about your beer, "at least I didn't get sick"?