brewing for color

So, I was racking my dunkelweizen into secondary last night and it got me wondering.

I used 3lb of light wheat DME and 3lb of amber wheat DME, which is the core of the beer as I understand it. Also used were 1lb of 60L crystal and 1lb of chocolate malt plus tettnanger hops and Wyeast #3068.

Now, I have been told that the grains really don't contribute much other than the color, giving the dunkel the qualities it needs to be catagorized as such.

So, if I didn't add them couldn't I just use the DME in addition to the hops and yeast to get the same product? Would a blind man say "hey, this isn't a dunkel!"

That can't be true because I like dark commercial beers a lot more than lights and ambers so the color and taste must be intertwined. Steeped chocolate, black patent, etc must be for more than just show. Right?

Right.......

If you're feeling brave, add a pound of black patent into your next pale ale. I think that will answer your question.

Seriously though, the grains give you colour AND flavour. My usual dunkelweizen for example is just a 60/40 mix of wheat/munich and about 100G of chocolate for colour. Pretty simple stuff.

The munch gives me the malty flavour and the chocolate (in this case) is just for colour. Would it taste the same without the chocolate? In this case probably yes, if I made a stout that called for 680G of chocolate and left it out - would it taste the same? Heck no.

Steeped grains add some flavor and add color. They add more of both if you do a full mash with them (or partial mash). But you do still get flavor from the grains. If you don't believe me, taste your kettle water after steeping the grains. It will DEFINITELY have a flavor... just not very strong.

Makes sense.

What made me wonder was the fact that the beer had an odor that reminded me of commercial dunkels. I figure most of that is the yeast and malt but if I had skipped the steeped pound of chocolate would the taste be nearly the same?

I think you may have been misinterpreting what you were hearing. Steeped grains add no appreciable sugar. However they are a very important part of the flavor and color. Even the sugar is not really true but the amount of sugars added by the steeped grains is dwarfed by the extract so you can mostly ignore it.
The difference between a stout and a pale ale is only the addition of some dark roasted specialty grains.
If you had skipped the Chocolate it would not have any of the roasty/toasty flavors and aroma.
Craig

Okay, now I understand. Thanks Craig.