Can I mix two different yeasts?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

sfbayarea

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
SAN BRUNO
Hey guys, another newby here. Doing my first strawberry mead based on the recipe in this post: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f30/group-brew-strawberry-mead-156994/
I think I got a bit too big of a bucket and poured too much water, I think I am at 7gal now. I have 5g KV-1116 that I stored in the refrigerator for the last month and a half and also have one of those liquid sweet mead yeasts. I was thinking to be on the safe site (so I don't spoil 18lb of honey and tons of strawberry) and to ensure that the yeast kicks in properly use both of the yeasts I have. What do you think, can I do it?
 
I'd start with one (the liquid?) and see if it kicks off within a couple days. If it don't start bubbling after a couple days, use the other.
 
I'm not sure if mixing yeast will work but my preference would be to get a really good starter batch going with just one of the yeasts.
 
Well some of the professional wine makers will mix yeasts, but from the two that you mention, I wouldn't bother.

If you started with the liquid yeast, it will probably get going, but one of the properties of K1V-1116 (denoted by the K) is that it has the "killer factor" and will become the dominant yeast in a ferment. So it's likely that you might need to leave the liquid one a fair way into the fermentation before pitching the K1V, and of course, whether the flavour of what's been fermented by the sweet mead yeast is retained or whether it's swamped by the taste of the honey that's been fermented by the K1V before the yeast kills off the sweet mead yeast is anyones guess.

You'd have to do something like make a batch of each (identical except the yeast), then taste both to understand which has ended up the stronger tasting (not how sweet they are) and then do some extensive blending experiments to see what mix is best to attempt to achieve a more complex taste. There's no guarantee that even if fermented separately, the taste of the finished meads won't have one taste swamping the taste of the other one.....
 
A single packet of dry or a single tube of liquid yeast could technically be a low pitching rate for any batch, even a five gallon one. I generally make a starter for liquid yeasts, and use more than one packet when using dry.
That all being said, alot depends on your OG ... you should have a lower OG since your volume went high, and this should make it even easier for either yeast to take off. Also, regardless of "proper" pitch rates, you will still make good mead with either yeast with a simple straight pitch. Best practice? Probably not, but it will work out...

Sent from my DROIDX using Home Brew Talk
 
Thank you guys for the reply. I used K116 first to see if it will start the process and yep, next day its all bubbling and yeast happily eating all the sugars.
 
if you want this dry, you may think about dropping in ec-1118 after the k1v is done. k1v appears to stop around 1.000 with meads. the ec 1118 will bring it the rest of the way down to .990 if that is what you want, but don't add it until the k1v is about done.
 
if you want this dry, you may think about dropping in ec-1118 after the k1v is done. k1v appears to stop around 1.000 with meads. the ec 1118 will bring it the rest of the way down to .990 if that is what you want, but don't add it until the k1v is about done.
Hum ? It might be worth you looking at "the yeast chart" my friend. You'll notice that there is little difference between the two, if you're just thinking of the % ABV.

Yes, there are slight differences, but if you read the data, you'll see that K1V out scores EC-1118.

Of course, EC-1118 does have it's uses, but the published data, along with Lallemand/Lalvins published description
Lalvin V1116 (K1) was isolated in 1972 by Pierre Barre of the INRA Montpellier. V1116 (K1) tends to express the freshness of white grape varieties. Natural fresh fruit aromas are retained for longer, compared to wines fermented with standard yeast (such as Prise de Mousse). When fermented at low temperatures (below 16°C) and with the right addition of nutrients V1116 (K1) is one of the more flowery ester producers (isoamyl acetate, hexyl acetate and phenyl ethyl acetate). These esters bring fresh floral aromas to neutral varieties or high-yield grapes. Among the high ester producers, V1116 (K1) is the most resistant to difficult fermentation conditions, such as low turbidity, low temperature and low fatty acid content. V1116 (K1) is recommended for the fermentation of icewines. It can also be used for rosé or basic red wines.
suggests to me that just recommending EC-1118 as a possible "cure all" isn't correct.

A lot of home brew shops will just recommend a champagne yeast such as EC-1118 out of ignorance/lack of knowledge, as they seem to think that it must be good to deal with "all that sugar".... It's been found on both sides of the pond that this isn't the best advice, by a country mile.

Practically, K1V is a better yeast for meads, whereas EC-1118 might be the best for champagne variety grapes. Either way, a little research would have shown you that once K1V had been used, then there's little point in trying to add EC-1118. It's very unlikely to work.

Whereas, there's a possibility, that trying to use different yeasts in the same batch to get a more layered and/or complicated flavour/result, then something that "Enhances varietal character" might have been better to use to start with, only to drop a starter of K1V in afterward.

The problem is, is that it's all subjective as all the properties as published, are as found with grape musts, not mead/honey musts.

As for K1V stopping at a specific point/level ? It's capable of 18% if the fermentation is correctly managed, that's a drop of approximately 133 gravity points, whether that's from 1.133 to 1.000 or from 1.123 to 0.990 is irrelevant, because to reach 18% ABV or gravities below 1.000, it's all about fermentation management (they both quote tolerance of 18% ABV, yet it's possible that good management might encourage them to go further, well a little bit anyways).

No criticism intended, just that most of what I've posted here is public domain information - plus there used to be a very well known (in the Bee and honey world - who passed away in the mid 90's) person who used to use the Gervin packaged version (varietal "E") of the montpellier strain i.e. K1V-1116 for his meads. He only started using it, because his preferred strain (the Maury strain, the nearest now is D21) became unavailable. He used the montpellier strain up to his death.
 
No criticism intended.
so, you can say this all day long, but there was a fair bit of criticism in that email and it was certainly intended.
so you know, i have made mead before. lots of mead.
golly gee though mister sir, i didn't realize that there was "research" out there!

instead of talking to you like you are 5 years old, i will explain my comments. in the future, i would apreciate a similar level of respect.

i have used K1v many times, and i absolutely love it for cyser, it's all i use for that. i also find myself going to it more and more for cider as well. i think it is the only yeast to use for mead if you want it drinkable in under 6 months. it has that little gem of a quality. the problem that i have run up against, is that i seem to have a hard time getting it to ferment MY meads with MY honey down below 1.000. i still can't figure out why. originally this was brought to my attention by someone else on this board who said the same thing. it didn't make sense to me then, but i had several meads aging in secondary's at that time that had k1v as the yeast. i had the same results as he had, seems to stop around 1 and leave a fruitier and sweeter finish. i, personally, don't go in for sweet and for some reason this mead that finishes around 1.000 tastes sweeter than that even. now, again with MY honey, ec-1118 dries the mead down more than that everytime. also, Ken schramm has recommended champange yeast for some time(along with other things) and i think i would count him as well versed in the making of mead.
maybe you don't think he knows what research is either, i don't know.

here are some facts though, a little bit of that research you mentioned, from other people's experiences (not what a company "says" should happen) will reveal many others peoples similar experiences, not all, but many.
honey is variable in the amount of unfermentables and some yeasts are better are fermenting the variety of sugars that are in honey. pretty much everyone agrees that the one thing champagne yeast is best at is eating all available sugar. the biggest downfall to it for meads is that it requires a very long aging time to let the flavors develop back and cover the hot alcohol flavors of a dry mead.

i was trying, and i think succeeding, in explaining to the OP my experiences with the yeast and mixing yeasts.
no criticism intended, of course.
 
I'm hoping it is mitigatory and not incendiary when I mention that I have gotten great information and advice from both bloke and frydogs' posts...
 
i really hate being talked down to is all.
i do apologize to the thread for taking it that direction, but i felt it had to be done.
i know a guy named paul schramm, but i meant to type Ken Schramm.
 
that one is very very well behaved. i am at work right now and he is asleep behind me. mainly he is just afraid of children, same as me.
it's the other one, the younger hound, that is a bit of a terror at the moment.
 
Wait he's a hound? My first guess was Rottie/Doberman mix.

I love older dogs and would adopt an older dog as a hands down preference if it werent for the obvious shorter life span.
 
that's what lots of people think, but no. the older one(the one in my pic) is half ridgeback and half black and tan coonhound.
 
A friend of a friend has a redbone coonhound. Big, lumbering, silent floppy-eared family protector. Gets super freaked out when they are out of his sight. Really noble dog. As for the Ridgies I have met the best term I can find is "serious." I always picture a Ridgeback and a Lab watching Benny Hill, and the Ridgie shaking his head in contempt when the Lab laughs.
 
I always picture a Ridgeback and a Lab watching Benny Hill, and the Ridgie shaking his head in contempt when the Lab laughs.

i am going to share this with my wife, because that's perfect. the younger one is black and tan coonhound and redtick coonhound so he about equivilant to a lab and that's is just about exactly how they are together.
 
i am going to share this with my wife, because that's perfect. the younger one is black and tan coonhound and redtick coonhound so he about equivilant to a lab and that's is just about exactly how they are together.

"Seriously, you are a 3 year old MAN for pete's sake... get a hold of yourself."
 
Back
Top