Question for Non-Automated Keggle Mashers

Hello all, first post here in the AG part of the forum so I'm a bit nervous Please don't throw stuff at me and tell me to use the search function, cuz I already did that!

I am looking to go all grain and starting to collect things I'll need. I want to do a single tier brew kart with three converted keggles. I won't have a Brutus system or electric heating elements, just three burners that I'll light as I need them. My biggest concern is keeping the mash @ 153 for the full hour. I know to boil some water in the mash tun to heat up the stainless so there is no inital heat loss. I will insulate the mash tun and checking the temps with a probe regulary. (Chances are I'll insulate the lid as well) Anyhow, onto the questions.

1. Once the temp is @ 153 do you have to reapply heat from the burners or does the temp stay consistent?

2. Is 153 the absolute magic number for conversion or is there some margin for error?

Any insight or help is greatly appreciated. It seems alot of people around here are using automated systems to keep their temps perfect, but I just don't have the funds to invest in something like that. I'm having a hard enough time trying to find a reasonable TIG welder around my area let alone wiring up an electric brew rig.

Good questions, I have similar issues, however I only have 2 kegs right now.
I can tell you that 153 is arbitrary, you may want to mash higher or lower depending on the style, ie a blonde at 151 or a dark malty mild at 157, or you may want to graduate from single infusion (which is where I'm at and will be for a long time) to decoctions, or step mashes.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but if you direct fire in a tiered sytem, you most likely will need to re-fire the burner during the mash, the key is not scortching the grain which is why a most systems are recirculating....

My system will be a HLT with a sight glass that feeds a 10gal igloo, I like the set it and forget it with temps in my igloo, if i cover it with a towel after mashing in, i usually only get 1.5 to 2 dF heat loss...

Hope this helps.

Scorching the grain is something that can be remedied by using a false bottom, right?

schweaty said:

Scorching the grain is something that can be remedied by using a false bottom, right?

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Moreso by stirring or recirculating the mash.

I use a non-automated keggle MLT. Mine is insulated and I put a blanket on the lid. As far as mash-temp goes, like GwR said. A higher mash temp will give you a less attenuable wort. A lower mash temp = more attenuable. So, if you mashed at 148dF, that would give you a fairly dry beer with a lower FG, depending on other factors affecting attenuation like crystal malts and yeast strain. If you mashed at 156dF, you'd get a pretty dextrinous beer with a higher FG. So, in short, mash temps are style/beer-specific.

As for keeping the mash temp. I think your best bet is be to insulate it well, including the lid (e.g., blanket) and leave it alone as far as the burner goes. If you lose a degree or two in the course of an hour... no big deal. Most of the conversion will take place in the first 20 min. anyway. A false bottom is fairly good protection from scorching, but what I would be more worried about is overshooting the mash temp. That is easily done with direct-fired mashes. You really have to continually stir while constantly checking the temperature throughout the mash when that burner is on mid-mash. I'm not the only one whose had a beer stop fermenting at 1.020 because of overshooting mash temps with a direct-fired MLT.

menschmaschine said:

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I'm not the only one whose had a beer stop fermenting at 1.020 because of overshooting mash temps with a direct-fired MLT.

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I'm bumping thread because of this last statement. I just did my first 5 gallon AG - a Belgian Witte. After 3 weeks and using a 1 qt starter (stir plate) it's stuck at 1.022. I expected it to be fully attenuated by now. I used a insulated keg for mash tun with direct fire to control mash temp. I do recall temp dropping far lower than expected after adding grains and firing up the burner to raise mash temp. Perhaps I overshot? I stirred like crazy but I might not have measured temp correctly. I'm wondering if this caused the stuck fermentation. Appreciate any insights.

I'm giving brew another week at a higher fermentation temp to see if it will finish out. If it stays at 1.022 should I just bottle anyway? Should I lower priming sugar? I'm a little concerned about bottle bombs.

Would I be better off throwing some Nottingham or something to finish fermentation instead?

Wit yeast takes a while, especially Wyeast 3944. It took mine 2 weeks to reach 1.012. Did you use a lot of unmalted/flaked wheat?

Bobby_M said:

Wit yeast takes a while, especially Wyeast 3944. It took mine 2 weeks to reach 1.012. Did you use a lot of unmalted/flaked wheat?

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5 lbs of unmalted flaked wheat. OG was 1.050. 74% attn should bring it down to 1.013. Am I being optimistic? It's been 3 weeks at 68*F (I am using 3944).

3 weeks is a long time. I'd try to ramp up the temp a few degrees and lightly swirl the fermenter to kick the yeast back up. It might be good for 2-3 more points and you can call it a day. It's possible that you did get the mash up too hot and locked in some long chains that will just not ferment. In any case, if the temp/swirl doesn't do anything, I'd bottle it as normal.

Insulate your tun. Get a full hinged false bottom. Recirculate during your mash. Use at least 1.4 quarts water per pound of grain. Do these things and never turn up your burner above what high on a kitchen stove looks like. I usually have my burner on during the whole mash at a very low setting with an outside temp of 65. You also have to look ahead about 3 minutes. Temp won't start to be affected for about 3 minutes and will continue about 3 minutes after adjustments. The key is slow changes. (get the 10 $ bayou classic burners you'll never need more) Once you learn your system you should not have any problems. Derek