how to get Apfelwein sweeter/less dry?

my wife was intrigued at the idea of making apfelwein until she read that it was on the dry side and not so sweet. she would like a sweet wine/cider. how could i acheive that with Ed's recipe?

Use unfermentables such as splenda or nutrasweet. About a cup makes a big difference. I like it better dry, but we messed around with sweetening it up, and went back to dry. Good luck.

My wife feels the same way. I used splenda and she loves it.

Drunkensatyr said:

Use unfermentables such as splenda or nutrasweet. About a cup makes a big difference. I like it better dry, but we messed around with sweetening it up, and went back to dry. Good luck.

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At what point do you add the cup of nutrasweet? While mixing everything or while kegging?

Really doesn't matter. You can always add more at kegging though, so remember it is easier to add than to subtract.

Thanks guys, I was about to ask the same question.

Shouldn't you use potassium sorbate to shock the yeast before backsweeting it?

If you don't it'll just ferment out more, wouldn't it?

splenda does not ferment out at all. I used a cup in the keg and think it's a bit too sweet. I'd recommend starting with 1/2 cup and taste it.

Lactose would work, too (also non-fermentable)

I haven't tried this yet, but I heard that Hefeweizen Yeast has a lower attenuation and leaves it with a stronger apple flavor.

I believe Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen. There was a thread awhile back about this. Several people raved about it.

Personally, I can't bring myself to add fake sugars to anything I make.

If you want to try it non-carbed (still), it's easy enough to kill the yeast and backsweeten with either sugar or apple juice concentrate. If you keg, you could do the same and then gas it up.

If it needs to be carbed and you don't keg, then (and only then) would I look at the Splenda option.

Back in my beer-brewing days, I had some very bad luck with NutraSweet (Aspartame). It imparted a stupendously nasty taste. I'd recommend steering clear of the stuff and sticking with sucralose (Splenda) or saccarin ... which I'm pretty sure won't chemically change, because they're marketed for baked goods.

Cheers!

--Finn

Splenda tastes just like sugar in my opinion. If you haven't tried it, don't put it in the same catagory as sweet and low, etc. Try it in a single glass on some of your dry cider.

the_bird said:

Personally, I can't bring myself to add fake sugars to anything I make.

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Lactose isn't fake. - Milk Stouts call for it in recipes

My first AW was made with lactose and its still pretty good and not too dry.

I've made several fruited AW's with oregon fruit and Cote De Blancs yeast. Its not as dry but I also used canned concentrate over cornsugar for the ABV.

Personally, I think that if you want cider to be sweeter don't add as much fermentable sugars. Use 5 gal of juice, one or two can of concentrate and yeast. I think the extreme dryness comes from alcohol.

I bet a 3.8-4.0% cider is still pretty tasty. Heck, make it a boilermaker with apple schnapps if you need more ABV.

Never referred to lactose as fake. Lactose isn't that sweet, though, and it's also going to add some residual body - not something that I personally find appealing in a cider/apfelwein, be it sweet or dry.

I do not carb my apfelwein and I mix it with sprite. That gives it a little carb and enough sweetness for my taste.

I threw a 1/2 cup of Splenda in at the time I "assembled" the recipe, then tasted at bottling time and decided another 1/2 cup would be good. Turned out to be a nice, slightly sweet hard cider. You may also want to cut back on the true fermentables (corn sugar). Since I was shooting for a wider (female) audience, I wanted a 4.5% instead of a 6.5-7% cider.

That also cut my fermentation time down to 4 weeks.

BierMuncher said:

Since I was shooting for a wider (female) audience...

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Did you just call your wife fat?

the_bird said:

Never referred to lactose as fake. Lactose isn't that sweet, though, and it's also going to add some residual body - not something that I personally find appealing in a cider/apfelwein, be it sweet or dry.

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Bird - I was just giving you $hit. Lactose is an Ok alternative. I used a pound in my 1st 5 gal batch and my HB Club thought I should enter it in the state fair competition. Many people asked for the recipe. I think its still pretty dry.

I made my first batch with splenda just to try it out. (1/3 cup per gal) I personally won't drink diet soda but I though I'd try this. I don't keg so that leaves me limited options. I want something sweeter for SWMBO.

I might take my own advice make something closer to 4%

Schlenkerla said:

I haven't tried this yet, but I heard that Hefeweizen Yeast has a lower attenuation and leaves it with a stronger apple flavor.

I believe Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen. There was a thread awhile back about this. Several people raved about it.

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I used the Wyeast 3068 it is certainly a bit sweeter. I actually liked the original recipie that Edwort gave us, but my wife likes the sweeter version using the wyeast.

That said when I pour a glass for my wife I swirl the bottle and pour it all in like you would for a Heffe. When I have a glass I do not swirl the yeast and leave it in the bottle.

It is quite good either way though

the_bird said:

Personally, I can't bring myself to add fake sugars to anything I make.

If you want to try it non-carbed (still), it's easy enough to kill the yeast and backsweeten with either sugar or apple juice concentrate. If you keg, you could do the same and then gas it up.

If it needs to be carbed and you don't keg, then (and only then) would I look at the Splenda option.

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Kegging noob and did two batches. I want to try one sweet and one normal. How much concentrate do you suggest and how would it not keep fermenting once you gas it up? I apologize if the question seem's stupid.

NYeric said:

I used the Wyeast 3068 it is certainly a bit sweeter. I actually liked the original recipie that Edwort gave us, but my wife likes the sweeter version using the wyeast.

That said when I pour a glass for my wife I swirl the bottle and pour it all in like you would for a Heffe. When I have a glass I do not swirl the yeast and leave it in the bottle.

It is quite good either way though

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When making Edwort's recipie with the 3068 yeast, did you need to use a blowoff tube on the carboy or did the primary ferment behave itself the way it does with the Montrachet yeast?

homebrewer_99 said:

Shouldn't you use potassium sorbate to shock the yeast before backsweeting it?

If you don't it'll just ferment out more, wouldn't it?

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splenda/nutrasweet etc. are non fermentable.

also you could try a different yeast other than a champange type like called for Montrachet. a specific cider yeast or an ale yeast might yeald a slightly sweeter end result - or thats what I've gathered from here anyway.

When making Edwort's recipie with the 3068 yeast, did you need to use a blowoff tube on the carboy or did the primary ferment behave itself the way it does with the Montrachet yeast?

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As someone who just this weekend started making my first apfelwein, using the WLP300 Hefe yeast due to some of the reviews, I can answer yes.. you do need to use a blow off as it behaves as it does with beer... high krausen, especially with the Hefe yeasts which are notorious for this.

This being said, I didn't Since my carboy rests in a spare bathtub i've done without... had to clean the airlock and rinse the carboy / bathtub down twice due to eruptions. The good thing, is that there's no trub or hops floating around, so the chances of it clogging the air lock seems about nil.

Other than what has been mentioned... For a sweeter cider you can sweeten just beyond where you like it, bottle condition (or not if for wine or you like still) and "package" pasteurize each bottle after capping. This takes some time and does add a bit of a "baked" character to the finished product.

I've even read about folks using a hot rinse in their dishwasher to do this. That might be overkill but I haven't tried it.

And how do you bottle pasteurize?

If you do use potassium sorbate, is this going to halt the aging process?

I used 'wine conditioner' which is a blend of sorbate and sucrose when I kegged. I didn't really meausure, but came close to the reccomended usage amounts, and it came out just right. Whether it is fermentable, I don't know, the sorbates should kill off the yeast.

I did one batch with splenda, and it had a 'sweet n' low' taste to me. I can't stand fake sweeteners, and splenda fits in that category for me based on my tastes.

Bobby_M said:

Splenda tastes just like sugar in my opinion. If you haven't tried it, don't put it in the same catagory as sweet and low, etc. Try it in a single glass on some of your dry cider.

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With any of these things, you (and your audience, if possible) should try the product in question. I'm blessed/cursed with a sense of taste that has yet to find any of the "just like sugar" products to measure up - splenda, massive advertising to the contrary aside, included. Equal likewise.

Another option, though it also is a bit off to my taste, and you need to be REALLY sparing with it is Stevia. A teaspoon might be too much for 5 gallons, though.

As for bottle pasteurizing, it's just heating the filled bottles to kill the yeast, after giving time (test a bottle or two) to carbonate (if carbonating). Running through the dishwasher would probably work - it's similar to commercial techniques. I don't think the rinse-only would get the contents of the bottles hot enough, but a wash or sanitize cycle with no detergent would probably do the job. You could also put them in a 140-160 degree oven for several hours, or stack them in your mash tun and cover with hot water.

Bottle pasteurize just as you would with any canning type situation... contents should reach 160 for 10 minutes I believe.

Lots of the "Pros" use this technique when creating a cider with any residual sweetness. However they also send bottles to labs to test for active yeast so no bottle bombs get by.