Measuring high gravity

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DraconianHand

DraconianHand

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I put together a 1 gallon batch of Cyser today using 5 pounds of honey and 8.5 cups of apple juice.

When I placed the hydrometer into the testing tube, the bulb at the bottom of the hydrometer wasn't even completely submerged. Basically, my OG is off the scale (greater than 1.170). I wasn't sure how to measure my OG, so I took two fluid oz. of cyser and two fluid oz. of water, mixed them, then took a gravity reading.

1.108

So, I estimate the OG for the cyser to be 1.216.

2 oz. water (1.000) + 2 oz. cyser (1.216) / 2 = 1.108

Is this the correct way to take a gravity reading for a super hi-grav liquid?
 
Don't know if there is a "correct" way, but what you did gives a good number.

I think you are in for a long, slow ferment with a really sweet final product. Let's say you get 22%, that leaves 60 points of sugar left.
 
What kind of yeast did you pitch? If you do want to dry it out, you'll have to use a yeast that can stand a really high alcohol environment (champagne yeast would be common).
 
Even champagne yeast only gets to about 18% alcohol- so it'd still be incredibly sweet. I've never made any high alcohol wine or mead, so I'm no help there at all. I think I would make another gallon of cyser without the honey and mix them together, and maybe you'd have a more reasonable s.g.
 
I used Red Star Montrachet. My prebrew estimates for OG were way off, otherwise I would have picked up something up to the task.

Fortunately I brewed 2 gallons of cider today as well. If the cyser is waaaaaay too sweet, or I can't find a way to dry it out, I can try blending.
 
Nothing on the market (maybe the planet) can dry it out. The OG and potential alcohol (29%) is beyond the capabilities of any yeast I've heard of. There are a few wine yeasts that can hit 21% and distiller's yeast are good for 22%. Sake yeasts max out at the same point. They all require stepped ferments.

Also, plan on this fermenting for a few years, the osmotic pressure of that much sugar will make the initial fermentation extremely slow.

I'd mix this with one of the gallons and start over.
 
david_42 said:
I'd mix this with one of the gallons and start over.
Click to expand...

If you have enough fermenters on hand, that is what I would do as well. You will have a hard time getting something drinkable with the current setup.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

- magno
 
So let's say that I let the yeast do its job and I get 14%, but drinking it makes my teeth ache. A stepped fermentation would mean that I would then pitch some distillers or sake yeast?

Before I do any blending, I am going to wait to see how the ciders turn out. One was plain apple juice and the other was Gravenstein apple juice (more body and some tartness). I bought the two types to see which makes a more agreeable cider. I will most likely mix the cyser and the cider I like the least together.

With my gravity being so far off, I must have miscalculated the amount of sugar in the apple juice. I used the nutritional information on the label to calculate the sugars. 24g for 8 oz or 3g per oz.

So at 67 oz. of apple juice, I have 201g of sugar. I am using Beer Tools and it doesn't have apple juice in the ingredients, so I entered 201g of corn sugar as a substitute. This sugar plus the honey (5lbs contributes about 150 points of gravity) brings me to an OG of 1.180. In order to get to 1.216, I have to change the sugars to 560g.

Something is off somewhere.
 
Your numbers for honey are low. Honey, on the average, contains 17.2% water by weight. So, 38 points per pound is closer.

Stepped ferment: when you add part of the fermentables, ferment it out, add more, ferment, add the rest ferment.

One variation I was introduced to last year is to pour 2/3 rds of the honey into the fermenter, Then mix the cider, yeast nutrient and the remaining honey, pour that very carefully into the fermenter. The idea is the honey at the bottom will dissolve slowly without overwhelming the yeast.
 
I thought I had heard of some newer ale yeasts that got up to ~25%. Probably inappropriate for the style, and I agree that you should blend to get the OG lower.
 
the_bird said:
I thought I had heard of some newer ale yeasts that got up to ~25%. Probably inappropriate for the style, and I agree that you should blend to get the OG lower.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call them "Ale" yeasts but there are new yeasts that can ferment out sugar to 25%.

They are used for making a base for distilling or to make hooch.
 
WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale Yeast
Can ferment up to 25% alcohol. From England. Brewers Notes: Flavors from this yeast vary greatly with the beer produced. The higher the gravity, the more winey the result. Beers over 16% ABV begin to taste less like beer, and more like fortified wines. With low gravity beers, this yeast produces a nice, subtle English ale-like ester profile.As the gravity increases, some phenolic character is evident, followed by the winey-ness of beers over 16% ABV. Most fermentations will stop between 12-16% ABV unless these high gravity tips are performed: Brewers Notes: Aerate very heavily, 4 times as much as with a normal gravity beer. Less oxygen dissolves into solution at high gravity. Pitch 3-4 times as much yeast as normal. Consider aerating intermittently during the first 5 days of fermentation. This will help yeast cells during a very difficult fermentation. Aerate with oxygen for 30 seconds or air for 5-10 minutes. Higher nutrient levels can allow yeast to tolerate higher alcohol levels. Use 2 times the normal nutrient level. This is especially important when using WLP099 to make wine and mead, which have almost no nutrient level to begin with. Do not start with the entire wort sugar at once. Begin fermentation with a wort that would produce a 6-8% beer, and add wort (it can be concentrated) each day during the first 5 days. This can be done together with aeration. This is mandatory if the reported 25% ABV is to be achieved.
Click to expand...

Never used it (can't imagine I would), and it's not going to work in this case since you've already got the batch fermenting. Technically, though, this is an ale yeast that's up to 25%.
 
Fermenting...

It did bubble today. Just once. The first time it has done so.

Long slow ferment

If I get impatient, I may just get some of the Super Hi Grav yeast. It's only $6 at my LHBS. Being that I only have one gallon, I would think a starter of Super yeast should be enough to get it going.
 
What about this stuff:

LIQUOR QUIK SuperYeast X-Press

LIQUOR QUIK SuperYeast X-Press is the new generation (2004) high alcohol turbo that can produce 25 L (6.5 U.S. Gallons) of 20% alcohol base in as little as 5 days. The new X-Press is completely stackable, which means that you can ferment multiple packs at a time, as long as the sugar, water, and temperature is kept constant. It works by fermentation of a special distiller’s yeast and complex blend of nutrients and vitamins. Net Wt is 135g (4.75 oz). Complete instructions printed on the back of the packet.

The name makes me wonder what types of flavors it would impart. Of course, the honey and apple juice might overpower any off flavors.
 
Honey is probably the purest form of brewing sugars. A lot of people think using honey will make a beer or mead sweet, but it will actually make the product dry. 5 lbs honey in a 1 gal batch will turn out very dry, unless the yeast gets all used up early and cant ferment all the sugars. Honey also ferments slowly, so youll just have to be patient with it. A 5 gal batch of mead using 12-13 lbs honey can take several months to ferment completely. you might add about 1/2 to 1 tsp yeast nutrient to help it some, but it will stll take a while to ferment. As for flavor, you might add a little cinnamon, nutmeg, and allspice. Hope this helps
 
Well, the amount of sugars in this 1-gallon batch probably exceeds what most yeast can consume. 5 pounds of honey with the remainder apple juice is a lot of sugar. From what I have heard here, there will be plenty of sugar leftover for sweetness.

I don't mind it being sweet. Sweet is good for dessert beverages and I can bottle it in smaller bottles.

Oh, there are some nutrients, apple pie spices and vanilla in it as well.
 

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