Beer not fermenting...

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Gderem

Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Location
Bellingham, WA
I know, you vets probably get sick of "beer not fermenting" threads, but here's another.

Started my batch 48 hours ago. Added Nottingham ale yeast when the temp was down to 75 degrees. Just sprinkled on top. Last night when nothing was happening before I went to bed I took another packet of notty and did what the packet says on the back. Start it in warm water and slowly add a little bit of wort to it. After about an hour I poured it in the bucket. That was 12 hours ago, still nothing going on.

Did adding the second packet of yeast screw things up? Should I just hurry up and wait or is there something I can do.
 
You may not have given your yeast enough time to get started but you didn't screw anything up....yet.
Stop messing with your beer and let the yeast have some time to do its job.
 
But the expiration could explain why it is taking so long for your yeasties to get going. It'll work out.
 
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/



please read !

also what are you fermenting in ?

if it is a bucket
ale_pail.37211957_std.jpg

there is a pretty good chance of fermentation going on ! and you cannot see any evidence of it because your lid is leaking.

-Jason
 
First, fermentation can take up to 72 hours for the yeasties to start, it's called lag time. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/

Secondly, how do you know your beer is not fermenting? I don't see you mentioning a gravity reading, so I'm going to assume that you, like 99% of the other "My beer's not fermenting" thread starters, are going by airlock bubbling NOT a hydrometer reading.

Get out of the idea of using "airlock bubbling" as a sign of fermentation, you have to realize that airlock activity is not an accurate indication of fermentation...an airlock is a vent for excess co2, nothing more...and half of my beers never bubble.

Read this...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/1217925-post3.html
 
What's the ambient temp of the room where your fermenter sits? Try GRADUALLY warming the room to the upper parameters of the yeast to kick start it and then gradually drop it back down. I'm sure there are some in here who disagree, but if you make the temp changes gradual then you're not going to get any noticeable off-flavors. Just remember that the temp of your beer will be higher than the ambient temp as it ferments. Yeasty beasties put out a lot of heat when they're working hard.
 
What's the ambient temp of the room where your fermenter sits? Try GRADUALLY warming the room to the upper parameters of the yeast to kick start it and then gradually drop it back down. I'm sure there are some in here who disagree, but if you make the temp changes gradual then you're not going to get any noticeable off-flavors. Just remember that the temp of your beer will be higher than the ambient temp as it ferments. Yeasty beasties put out a lot of heat when they're working hard.

But there's really no reason to try to fix something, unless you first know whether or not it is broken...

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in.....
 
Good advice. I've never brewed a beer that didn't ferment enough to have bubbles in the airlock so I assumed that's what I would be looking for. I do remove the airlock and look in for the foaming action on the top.

So at any rate I've probably really messed up bad this batch of beer... at about 2 1/2 days I panicked and poured in a packet of safale us-05 american ale yeast. Within 2 hours the beer was then fermenting, and within 12 hours was going crazy. Who knows what the cross-mixing of yeasts will do. I'll post again in a few weeks as to whether this beer turned out well or was spoiled.
 
Your beer is going to be fine. Nottingham and US-05 are clean fermenting yeasts. Just keep the temps in check and everyting will turn out great.

Next time RELAX. The yeast know what their job is. Let them do it!
 
I started one of these threads too, and after 96 hours mine took off and never looked back so my thought is it will be fine. Oh and I think I pitched to hot and it still went crazy filling the air lock with bubbles after 4 days.
 
Most yeast strains do the "Highlander" thing, There can be only one, so the weaker of the two will become dormant.

I do suggest that as soon as you have reached terminal gravity I would transfer it off of that yeast cake to avoid off flavors, and let it rest in secondary for several weeks to help clear out the brew from your over pitching !

-Jason
 
I just transferred it to a secondary. Boy was there a lot of yeast cake in there! There's still some fermenting going on but the Hydro shows only 2% potential alcohol left so its slowing down.

I was considering doing a second transfer in a few more days to get even more of the cake out of there. Do you recommend that, or unnecessary?
 
I just transferred it to a secondary. Boy was there a lot of yeast cake in there! There's still some fermenting going on but the Hydro shows only 2% potential alcohol left so its slowing down.

I was considering doing a second transfer in a few more days to get even more of the cake out of there. Do you recommend that, or unnecessary?

You're not going to get to 0 on that potential alcohol scale. The only way to use that scale is to note what you get at the start, note what you get at the end and then subtract the two.

If you're making wine or mead or something that could ferment down to 1.000, then it's a potential alcohol scale.
 
...or , the haphazard re-adding new yeast will produce the best beer you've ever tasted... and it may not be easy to duplicate! Keep some records and enjoy that stuff when it's done! :)
 
And STOP transfering your beer to secondary before it's done fermenting. Your next thread will be "My beer is stuck at 1.020....Now what?"
 
First, fermentation can take up to 72 hours for the yeasties to start, it's called lag time.

It can take that long IF:

1. You underpitch or more likely,
2. The wort is poorly aerated.

Most of my primaries are COMPLETED within 72 hours; I attribute that to a very strong starter and thorough aeration. I'd crap a load if my lag times were anything more that 6 hours or so.

In my opinion, aeration is one of the most overlooked basic steps in homebrewing. Aeration is easy, cheap, and the best way to ensure quick starts, quick completions, and excellent attenutations.
 
I have an aerator on order, so this will be my last batch without aerating. I mentioned the 2% number because I thought it was doing pretty good, started at 6.5. Many beers I used to make would stop around 1.5, but I didn't used to aerate.

There's still plenty of yeast suspended in the beer and it's still fermenting, albeit slowly. What's the problem with transferring too soon?
 
There's still plenty of yeast suspended in the beer and it's still fermenting, albeit slowly. What's the problem with transferring too soon?

You shouldn't rack a beer to secondary until fermentation is complete...

"Secondary fermenter" is actually a misnomer and a mistake many brewers don't grasp....the secondary has nothing to do with he process of "secondary fermentation" which is part of the normal yeast life cycle, one of the stages of fermentation.Which is done in your bucket or carboy.


The secondary we are referring to is also called a "brite tank" it is the carboy where people move their beer to clear, or to add fruit, or hops for dry hopping... and to let the yeast and other things fall down...I

Here's John Palmer's explanation of the Secondary fermentation Phase

The fermentation of malt sugars into beer is a complicated biochemical process. It is more than just the conversion of sugar to alcohol, which can be regarded as the primary activity. Total fermentation is better defined as three phases, the Adaptation or Lagtime phase, the Primary or Attenuative phase and a Secondary or Conditioning phase. The yeast do not end Phase 2 before beginning Phase 3, the processes occur in parallel, but the conditioning processes occur more slowly. As the majority of simple sugars are consumed, more and more of the yeast will transition to eating the larger, more complex sugars and early yeast by-products. This is why beer (and wine) improves with age to a degree, as long as they are on the yeast. Beer that has been filtered or pasteurized will not benefit from aging.

The reactions that take place during the conditioning phase are primarily a function of the yeast. The vigorous primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast cells are going dormant - but some are still active.

The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase. ...
It's easy to see how confusing the terms are...that's why we try to get outta the habit of saying secondary fermentation...and just say secondary...or bright tank (mostly just secondary, dropping fermenter or fermentation, since fermentation should be finished before you rack it to the secondary. After the hydrometer reading stays the same for 3 days.

New brewers often rack way too early, and often interrupt the secondary phase because of this, and that is why you often see panic threads about Krausens forming in secondary, because the yeast was really still in the primary phase of fermentation when it was moved.

And it starts building a krauzen house again....

If you do choose to use a "bright tank" it's best to wait til fermentation is complete, you know that by taking 2 gravity readings over a 3 day period. If the grav hasn't changed, then you can rack it without having a krausen develop...though sometimes it does anyway.

Many of us nowadays forgo a bright tank and just leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks, then bottle...We only use a secondary if we are adding something to the beer, such as fruit, dryhopping or oaking the beer, otherwise we just leave the beer alone and let the yeasts clean up the beer at their own pace. Or if we added fruit, like pumpkin in the boil and want to get the beer off the goop.

If that wasn't clear, Donman sums it up pretty well;

dontman
I thought Palmer was actually pretty good about differentiating between Secondary Fermenting and Secondary Fermentation. I found Papazian to be less so. When I read Papazian the first time I was left with the exact impressions that you have and when I look at my brew logs from 1992 I was regularly doing 4 and 5 day primaries and then secondary. He actually made me feel like the sooner off the yeast cake the better.

You are confusing secondary fermentation with secondary fermenter. Very easy to do.

Secondary fermentation occurs while the yeast is still in solution immediately after the conversion of sugars to alcohol. During that time there is tons of proteins and partially digested sugars in solution in addition to the waste products of the yeast, plus any esters and fusel they create while they ferment. During secondary fermentation the yeast will clean up these esters, and the fusels, and reabsorb a lot of their waste products.

Once this process is complete if you choose THEN you can rack to the Secondary Fermenter. This is a also called a bright tank or clearing tank and it is where the sedimentation occurs. This is where the most of the proteins and other detritus fall out of solution and the beer clears. Yes, the yeast is still present in this tank but because the vast majority has been left behind in the primary tank any benefit from the yeast at this stage is greatly diminished.

So if you haven't figured it out, NOTHING should be happening in the Secondary (brite tank) except you beer clearing......

You will find Many of us here leave our beers in primary for a month, it is actually very good for the beer to leave it around that long...it improves taste and clarity vastly...

There are several dozen threads about long primary or no secondary, at least three a day asking your question...if you wanna know what it does and why we choose to do it, just do a thread search on those key words...there's like at least one new thread on it every 2-3 days so there's plenty of info.
 
You shouldn't rack a beer to secondary until fermentation is complete

Like a lot of techniques in homebrewing, everyone has their opinions about what works best for them. I've found good information at the White Labs FAQ section of their website. Spending a few minutes browsing the FAQ's is highly recommended.

White Labs FAQ Section

Here's what they've said about aeration and secondary transfer:

One way to get more oxygen into the fermentor is to use a fish type of aquarium pump. Put an air filter on that you can get at homebrew shops, and turn on for one hour after pitching. Don’t use a stone, it will foam too much, just a small bore tubing, this will add big enough bubbles to mix things up, and you get good oxygen delivery into the wort. An additional tip is to transfer the beer when it gets to 1.025; the transfer itself helps to add a little oxygen and mix things up.

I started using just such an aeration system, except that I aerate for 30 minutes, pitch my starter, and aerate for another 30 minutes to mix things up nicely.

Also, I started to strictly rack to the secondary after four days in the primary.

This combination has helped me hit the upper ends of the yeast's published attenuation ranges (and in a lot of cases exceed that upper limit). My beers start quicker, go to completion much faster, and attenuate like a champ.
 
drayman86,

you hit the nail on the head with you comment
everyone has their opinions about what works best for them

But in the "beginners forum", many of us prefer to teach Beginner techniques.

Yes I see what you are doing with your brews and it has merit,
But instead of arguing with a member in anothers members thread about what method is best, start your own thread in the brewing science forum.
So everyone can discuss their perfered techniques.

-Jason
 
But in the "beginners forum", many of us prefer to teach Beginner techniques.


Respectfully, this is exactly what I was attempting. Active, strong aearation should be emphasized and taught to every new brewer. It's a vital and necessary step. Once I started to employ it, my brewing jumped to a new level of quicker starts, faster finishes, and better attenuations. Palmer includes it, however I've just not seen it repeated by many here; perhaps I've missed that in these forums?


I'm just hoping to assist new brewers in this great passion of ours and help them avoid the frustrations we've all experienced.

Greg
 
everyone has their opinions about what works best for them.

I didn't give an opinions, I cited facts and info...including the fact that many people don't secondary at all...what anyone chooses to do with the info is their responsibility. I answer these questions every day, repeatedly. There's been debates on this topic ad nauseum and most of us no longer care to do that. My only interest is giving the OP the info and answering HIS question.....I really don't care who's brewing d*@k is bigger.

Like Cheeto said I'm sure you can find people elsewhere than the beginnner's section to debate this with.

Back to the OP...

Many of us leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks, skip secondary and bottle. Just search for the 10,000 threads under "long Primary" or "no secondary" and you will see all the resaons why we do it, and the explanations behind...There's at least one thread a day on the topic, so it's really not hard to find the discussion pretty much hashed to death.

but if you choose to secondary you should wait til your Hydrometer tells you fermentation is complete. The secondary is a place for clearing or adding things to the beer not a place where more fermentation is supposed to happen. Your beer is supposed to rest there, not be active.

If I do secondary (which is only when I am adding fruit or oak) I wait 14 days then rack for another 2 weeks...then I bottle.

But that's only if I am dry hopping or adding oak or fruit, which I rarely do, so for me it's a month than bottle,

Honestly you will find your beer will be the best if you ignore the kit instructions, and don't rush it.
Even Palmer seems to agree.

How To Brew;

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

Your beer will thank you for waiting.

Of the ton of threads on this topic, this one is one of the better ones. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/racking-secondary-questions-119918/#post1334844
 
One way to get more oxygen into the fermentor is to use a fish type of aquarium pump. Put an air filter on that you can get at homebrew shops, and turn on for one hour after pitching. Don’t use a stone, it will foam too much, just a small bore tubing, this will add big enough bubbles to mix things up, and you get good oxygen delivery into the wort. An additional tip is to transfer the beer when it gets to 1.025; the transfer itself helps to add a little oxygen and mix things up.

I started using just such an aeration system, except that I aerate for 30 minutes, pitch my starter, and aerate for another 30 minutes to mix things up nicely.

This is all fine and dandy. You can aerate with an aquarium pump for nine hours straight if you want. You are not going to get any more O2 in your wort than someone shaking/stirring well. A pump might save your back/shoulder but you're not doing anything more beneficial for your yeast. There have been studies that prove this. I'm too lazy to look them up. But they are around here. They only way to get more oxygen into your wort is with pure O2 and a diffusion stone.
 
OK one more question about this batch of beer if anyone is reading this thread.

It's done fermenting for a few days now. Actually when I transferred it to the carboy I was only getting about a bubble in the airlock every minute. A couple days later it was a bubble every two minutes. I shook it up a bit to release the co2 in there and no more bubbles now.

So should I bottle it now or wait? With this over-yeasted batch would letting it sit for a longer time contribute to fixing off-flavors of yeast, or make them worse?
 
Just tried one of these beers. Bottled it 3 weeks ago. Doesn't taste carbonated. I did a heaping 1/2 cup of corn sugar, making it a bit over 1/2 cup. Do you think I used too little?

There are bubbles and a tiny bit of foam, but doesn't taste like it. How much longer do you suspect I need to put this batch away for before trying again?

Taste is ok, time and carbonation should make this batch good.
 
I do think you could have used too little priming sugar (for a 5 gallon batch anyway) - once I started weighing my corn sugar I discovered that 5 oz will almost fill a cup. It also just may need another week or two to finish carbonating, some batches just take longer than others. One thing you might try is rolling the bottles back and forth a few times to swirl up the yeast, then give them another week or two to get as much as you can out of them.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top