Diy pid controller

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Make sure it has a manual mode function or its not what you want.Youll need it to control the boil.Aubrins 2352 or mypin TD4 both have manual mode
 
I am trying to find one on Amazon if at all possible that will work. Anyone?
 
The vendor in your first post (Brainytrade) sells the same Mypin TD4 PID with a 40 AMP SSR on Amazon for about the same price or a little lower than the package you linked to with the 25 AMP PID.

The TD4 has a manual mode.
 
I've been looking at Mypin TD4 also, but I'm not sure how to set it up. Is it possible to control step mashes with a Mypin temp. controller?.
 
I guessed that he was going to heat more than tea water.
For most of our (home brewers) applications a 25A is being run at near the top of its capacity which could shorten its life.
Guilty as charged of an assumption.

TallDan said:
How would you know that 25A is marginal when the OP didn't state what load would be on the SSR?
Click to expand...
 
nealm said:
I guessed that he was going to heat more than tea water.
For most of our (home brewers) applications a 25A is being run at near the top of its capacity which could shorten its life.
Guilty as charged of an assumption.
Click to expand...

A 120v 2000w element for RIMS would be 16.7a, or 67% of rated capacity.
A 120v 1500w element for RIMS would be 12.5a or 50% of rated capacity.

Both of these are common applications with plenty of headroom at 25A.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back to the OP's question...

We can't possibly answer the question without more information here. Not only can we not tell if the components listed are appropriate, but we also cannot tell if other components will be needed. Most people who build a controller use some switches, LEDs and outlets as well.
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
Make sure it has a manual mode function or its not what you want.Youll need it to control the boil.Aubrins 2352 or mypin TD4 both have manual mode
Click to expand...

The gray faced pid in the amazon ad is the TD4 it also states its the correct td4-snr for driving the ssr with manual or fuzzy -pid logic
 
TallDan said:
Back to the OP's question...

We can't possibly answer the question without more information here. Not only can we not tell if the components listed are appropriate, but we also cannot tell if other components will be needed. Most people who build a controller use some switches, LEDs and outlets as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah but that doesnt really matter here right?... All he asked is will he be able to use the stuff in the link for a control panel to control a boil.... The answer is yes 25a is rated for 6000w or less elements and the pid in the ad does have manual mode... if he chooses to add lights,switches or outlets or wire direct is unrelated as far as I see and will just take this thread off into an off topic discussion.:mug:
 
okiedog said:
I've been looking at Mypin TD4 also, but I'm not sure how to set it up. Is it possible to control step mashes with a Mypin temp. controller?.
Click to expand...

you have to step it manually just like you would with the equvilent auberins pid that was mentioned... however switching to and controlling the manual boil level is easier with the td4 from what I have read. I use td4s and they work very well for me. (im also using the same 25a ssr with my 4500w element for almost 3 years now with no problems so.)
I have links to were I found mine in my build thread below which may or may not still work...

***Tip for searching for the td4 on ebay or amazon you have to search for "td4 temperature controller" and NOT mypin for some odd reason...

newegg sells them too but they sell them under the apgtek brand name even though they still clearly say "Mypin" all over them...
 
augiedoggy said:
Yeah but that doesnt really matter here right?... All he asked is will he be able to use the stuff in the link for a control panel to control a boil.... The answer is yes 25a is rated for 6000w or less elements and the pid in the ad does have manual mode... if he chooses to add lights,switches or outlets or wire direct is unrelated as far as I see...
Click to expand...

Doesn't say anywhere that he's controlling a boil, could be a HERMS, RIMS, or god knows what else, which is my point.

6000w at 240v is under 25a, but as mentioned by someone else, it's cutting it close, a larger relay (for minimal cost increase) would be a better fit. Those heat sinks are also noted as being undersized, if the relay will be that close to capacity, a larger one would be preferable, or maybe he'd need a fan to cool it.
 
TallDan said:
Doesn't say anywhere that he's controlling a boil, could be a HERMS, RIMS, or god knows what else, which is my point.

6000w at 240v is under 25a, but as mentioned by someone else, it's cutting it close, a larger relay (for minimal cost increase) would be a better fit. Those heat sinks are also noted as being undersized, if the relay will be that close to capacity, a larger one would be preferable, or maybe he'd need a fan to cool it.
Click to expand...

Ok fair enough... I use those heat sinks and that pid/ssr combination but I do use a fan. There are a lot of guys that just screw the ssr direct to a metal enclosure with no heatsink with success though I dont recomment it. There has been no evidence that i can find that a 40a ssr runs any cooler than a 25a ssr, especially with the cheap knock off fake foteks like the one in the ad (they are clones and there are threads as well as other websites about this,)


He is looking to control one 120v element according to all his other threads Which most likely you havent seen so..
 
augiedoggy said:
you have to step it manually just like you would with the equvilent auberins pid that was mentioned... however switching to and controlling the manual boil level is easier with the td4 from what I have read. I use td4s and they work very well for me. (im also using the same 25a ssr with my 4500w element for almost 3 years now with no problems so.)
I have links to were I found mine in my build thread below which may or may not still work...

***Tip for searching for the td4 on ebay or amazon you have to search for "td4 temperature controller" and NOT mypin for some odd reason...

newegg sells them too but they sell them under the apgtek brand name even though they still clearly say "Mypin" all over them...
Click to expand...

This may be what I've been looking for: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-KING-DUAL-PLUG-CONTROL-P4027.aspx
It's supposed to be able to sequentially step through different temp settings for step mashing or fermentation profiles.
 
okiedog said:
This may be what I've been looking for: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-KING-DUAL-PLUG-CONTROL-P4027.aspx
It's supposed to be able to sequentially step through different temp settings for step mashing or fermentation profiles.
Click to expand...
thats not a pid... its just a stc1000 variant.
They have mechanical relays making them good and controlling a fridge and heater for a fermentation chamber but not at all ideal for controlling percise temps with a heating element for a rims or kettle...

You can buy an STC1000 and flash it with alphaomegas firmawre like I did to mine which allows for the same customizable fermantation profiles and ramping... the stc1000 is about $12 shipped or you can buy the stc 1000+ units alrteady flashed for about $30... I have like 8 or these and I use 4 myself to conrol the heating and cooling on my conicals. go to the "stc1000+" thread in the DIY section for more info. I wouldnt doubt if these kegking units use alphaomegas firmware he wrote and provided for free to the home brewing community.
 
Thanks, augiedoggy! actually, I knew it wasn't a PID, but thought it might work for mash control. I've never used a PID, but from what you and others have stated, they are ideal for mash temps. Thanks for the scoop on STC1000+. I will certainly take a look at those.
 
QUESTION:
I recently went from a 1500 watt to a 2000 watt element and don't see much of a change in time to get to mash temp? My question is, I am using a pid controller which goes through a relay, then I plug my element into the 20amp outlet on my pid controller(the element has a 20amp male plug). The pid controller cord is just a normal 3 prong I think 15amp make plug which goes into your standard gfci outlet. If this is my setup, am I NOT getting the max wattage out of my element??
 
I have TD4 SNR's in my setup and can control step mashes. i'm just responding to a question from earlier.
 
Well, it all depends on how fast your able to ramp your temps. But, the quick and dirty is to set your temp, then set a timer, after you figure out your ramp rate, Split the time in half and subtract from your hold time and when your alarm goes off... Change your temp. Using a PID does not automate your brew day.
 
okiedog said:
Thanks, augiedoggy! actually, I knew it wasn't a PID, but thought it might work for mash control. I've never used a PID, but from what you and others have stated, they are ideal for mash temps. Thanks for the scoop on STC1000+. I will certainly take a look at those.
Click to expand...

To give some additional clarity, the controllers like you linked are either on or off and are designed to cycle slowly. If you are set to 150, when the pot drops to 149 it kicks on full blast until the pot gets back up to 150, then cuts all the way off until it drops again. Applying 100% heat is not ideal, especially if you are worried about hi and low temperature spots (like in your mash). That said, this approach works just fine in a HLT where the water can circulate freely (if you wanted to use an off the shelf bucket heater).

By switching to a PID you get a controller that can change the amount of power it delivers by switching on and off much more quickly and at different on-off durations. By tuning the pid you can achieve a tighter control, and the element will only put out as much power as it needs. This works much better for high power elements and in applications where you might need a steady manual power level (like boiling).
 
Thanks. I believe I understand now how PID controllers work to control mash temps. Some PID controllers are listed as auto tuning. What is that?
 
okiedog said:
Thanks. I believe I understand now how PID controllers work to control mash temps. Some PID controllers are listed as auto tuning. What is that?
Click to expand...

PID stands for proportional / integral / derivative

The controller uses each value to figure out how much power to apply.

P=Present temperature error (calculates the power output based on how far off your system is right now)

I=Past temperature error (gives you a power boost if your temp has been staying low too long)

D=Future temperature error (cuts back on the power if it thinks your system is going to overshoot)


Each value gets a number based on how your system reacts to turning the element on and off. It is possible to manually figure out what numbers to use, but an auto tuning PID will turn the heat on and off and learn what the right PID values are for you (usually).
 
BeardedBrews said:
PID stands for proportional / integral / derivative

The controller uses each value to figure out how much power to apply.

P=Present temperature error (calculates the power output based on how far off your system is right now)

I=Past temperature error (gives you a power boost if your temp has been staying low too long)

D=Future temperature error (cuts back on the power if it thinks your system is going to overshoot)


Each value gets a number based on how your system reacts to turning the element on and off. It is possible to manually figure out what numbers to use, but an auto tuning PID will turn the heat on and off and learn what the right PID values are for you (usually).
Click to expand...


Can you help me set my pid controller. Right now I have P:eek:ff I: at 20 and D:eek:ff. Should this be different? I'm using a mypin TD4
 
Sorry not sure why the smily faces p I have off, I I have set to 20 and D is off
 
jcs401 said:
Sorry not sure why the smily faces p I have off, I I have set to 20 and D is off
Click to expand...

What sort of system are you trying to control?


My build is in my signature, basically a 5500W element inside a keg with 4 layers of reflectix on the sides and no lid.

My last mash was pretty stable (±1F) and I ran with the following:

P = 60
I = 1
D = 30

The settings will be very dependent on how fast your system heats up and cools down.
 
BeardedBrews said:
What sort of system are you trying to control?





My build is in my signature, basically a 5500W element inside a keg with 4 layers of reflectix on the sides and no lid.



My last mash was pretty stable (±1F) and I ran with the following:



P = 60

I = 1

D = 30



The settings will be very dependent on how fast your system heats up and cools down.
Click to expand...


Right now I am only doing 3-5 gallon batches using a 2000 watt ULWD element. I usually mash around 152 and can get to 165 degrees for about 75 degree water in 40 or so minutes. Using a 11 gallon kettle with one layer of reflectix but will try to double up on that. Any ideas what I should run the pid at?
 
jcs401 said:
Right now I am only doing 3-5 gallon batches using a 2000 watt ULWD element. I usually mash around 152 and can get to 165 degrees for about 75 degree water in 40 or so minutes. Using a 11 gallon kettle with one layer of reflectix but will try to double up on that. Any ideas what I should run the pid at?
Click to expand...

You will have to do some experimenting to know for sure. Unfortunately no one will be able to really tell you much without watching your system run.

If you want to start from scratch, set P=10 I=1 D=1 and tell it to go to a temperature. Press the SET button so you can watch the power output, and then just play with it for a while.

You can also try Auto Tuning it. Let it get close to your temperature and then Hold SET and \M until the light flashes. When it stops flashing, it's done.


No matter what, remember that the PID works best if there is very little delay between when it heats the element and when the temperature probe heats up. This means you need to help the heat get from the element to the probe by recirculating with a pump, stirring all the time, or keeping the grain away from the element and probe.


Don't forget that if you get frustrated, you can always wrap the kettle up with a sleeping bag and bungee cords and turn the control box off entirely. If the temperature stays the same, the beer doesn't really care if the PID was on or not :D
 
BeardedBrews said:
You will have to do some experimenting to know for sure. Unfortunately no one will be able to really tell you much without watching your system run.



If you want to start from scratch, set P=10 I=1 D=1 and tell it to go to a temperature. Press the SET button so you can watch the power output, and then just play with it for a while.



You can also try Auto Tuning it. Let it get close to your temperature and then Hold SET and \M until the light flashes. When it stops flashing, it's done.





No matter what, remember that the PID works best if there is very little delay between when it heats the element and when the temperature probe heats up. This means you need to help the heat get from the element to the probe by recirculating with a pump, stirring all the time, or keeping the grain away from the element and probe.





Don't forget that if you get frustrated, you can always wrap the kettle up with a sleeping bag and bungee cords and turn the control box off entirely. If the temperature stays the same, the beer doesn't really care if the PID was on or not :D
Click to expand...


What does auto tuning do? And I tried pushing the SET button and a couple times it read 0 on the output but the element was still going when bringing up to boil. Why wouldn't it read 100% output? Is one of my setting off on the pid? Is there a way to say RESET To Factory?
 
jcs401 said:
What does auto tuning do?
Click to expand...

It automatically tunes the values of P, I, and D to your system.

http://milantrend.com/TDusermanual.pdf

If you are in "Automatic" mode the P/MV light will be off. Pressing SET will cycle between displaying the setpoint and the current power output (which will change based on how much power the controller thinks it needs)

If you are in "Manual" mode the P/MV light will be solid on. Pressing SET will cycle between displaying the setpoint (which doesn't actually do anything) and the current power output (which will stay at what you set it to)



If the "OUT 1" light is off, but the element is still getting hot, then you have a bad SSR or are wired up wrong.

If the "OUT 1" light is on solid, then the power output should display 100.

If the "OUT 1" light is blinking, then your power output should be something less than 100 depending on how fast it's blinking.



The questions you're asking seem to span more than one thing at a time, which might be making this more confusing.

There are two things going on:

1. You have a controller, which turns the element on and off. Compare the indicator lights on the controller with the indicator light on the SSR and the heat on the element to see if this is working the way you expect.

2. Your controller can use "smart" control to maintain a certain temperature. To do this, it needs to know values for P/I/D, otherwise the best it can do is plain old dumb control. You can either auto-tune the PID or manually pick values, but either way won't work if #1 isn't working.
 
BeardedBrews said:
It automatically tunes the values of P, I, and D to your system.

http://milantrend.com/TDusermanual.pdf

If you are in "Automatic" mode the P/MV light will be off. Pressing SET will cycle between displaying the setpoint and the current power output (which will change based on how much power the controller thinks it needs)

If you are in "Manual" mode the P/MV light will be solid on. Pressing SET will cycle between displaying the setpoint (which doesn't actually do anything) and the current power output (which will stay at what you set it to)



If the "OUT 1" light is off, but the element is still getting hot, then you have a bad SSR or are wired up wrong.

If the "OUT 1" light is on solid, then the power output should display 100.

If the "OUT 1" light is blinking, then your power output should be something less than 100 depending on how fast it's blinking.



The questions you're asking seem to span more than one thing at a time, which might be making this more confusing.

There are two things going on:

1. You have a controller, which turns the element on and off. Compare the indicator lights on the controller with the indicator light on the SSR and the heat on the element to see if this is working the way you expect.

2. Your controller can use "smart" control to maintain a certain temperature. To do this, it needs to know values for P/I/D, otherwise the best it can do is plain old dumb control. You can either auto-tune the PID or manually pick values, but either way won't work if #1 isn't working.
Click to expand...



I think it is working correctly but the last time I used it I had it set to 165 and it worked fine with the OUT light on solid and the element was working but the percentage was showing 0.0. The P was set to off, The I was at 20 and the D was set to off. Why wouldn't it show say 100% ?
 

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