Sourdough Yeast experiment question.

Hey folks,

I'm just curious, because I have some extra sourdough starter... What do you think the result would be if I added the sourdough starter (Candida milleri or some other bread yeast and Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis) to some apple juice, adding some maltose for the Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis to munch on?

Would it be safe to drink?

If anybody has done this, or has any idea how it might turn out, let me know. I'm guessing that it would be gross or be close to vinegar, but if it would be safe, I might consider sacrificing a half gallon of juice for the experiment, just to see.

Probably safe to drink, but not a good thing.

Just an opinion, so do it and report back.

Well, I figure it will probably be safe to drink, but I'm not 100% sure, because normally you don't consume Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis when it has been cooked.

My first guess is that it will be disgusting, because many a batch of beer and cider has been spoiled by Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis cousins. However, it is used in bread, so it might not make quite as sour a flavor, and I've read something somewhere that indicated that under some circumstances some Lactobacillus will not spoil cider, I think it had something to do with acid content. And apparently a few strains of Lactobacillus have been isolated from cider-making, so I wonder if maybe there is a chance that the occasional not as nasty Lactobacillus has made it into an open fermented batch of cider and came out tasty.

Apple juice isn't THAT expensive, I think I might just try it with a very small batch, like half a gallon of Wal-mart cheapo juice.

one other thing to think about. Speaking as a brewer and a baker myself. Yeasts that produce bread (even wild yeasts such as used in sourdough) tend to make more CO2 and less on the alcohol side.

slightly Where exactly do you live? The reason I ask is, your sourdough starter will be representative of the wild yeast strains in th area you live regardless of where your starter came from originally.

Oh, and on a side note. I would highly recommend doing things the other way around...

If you brew beer also. I add a homebrew oatmeal stout to my sponge when making a dark rye...

YUM.

knights of Gambrinus,

I actually tried making bread with some leftover cider yeast once. It was okay, but I imagine that some of the beer yeasts, which are selected and intended for brewing with grains, would probably taste better.

The sourdough starter I am refering to is from Goldrush, and I live in Alabama right now. Rather than use a current live starter, I was planning on using the yeast and lacto from the spare packet that I bought by accident a few days ago (forgot I already had some), to avoid just such an introduction a large influx of local yeasts, and to use the little dried fellows before they expire. I was out of town all summer, so I don't currently have a live starter to use anyway, it met its end as some sourdough pancakes at the beginning of the summer. I was sad to see it go, but it was wonderful.

As for alcohol content, not so worried, not a big concern of mine. CO2 and foam issues are something I hadn't considered, but now that I think about it, I typically put my working batches of sourdough in apple juice containers (hey, it's what I got) so I can throw the goobed up container away when I am done, and I've had a few CO2 related "ventings" in the past, and that was in the fridge, where growth was retarded. I'll keep that in mind if (and it looks more likely) I do this experiment.

Thanks for the advice!

Using the sourdough starter will produce some alch but it will not loose its smell or taste. I love sourdough bread but that would be a bit too strong in a drink. Best of luck on trying this!

Well, I've just pitched the Goldrush sourdough starter packet into a half gallon of cheapo Winn-Dixie (from concentrate) Apple Juice as part of my brewing activities for this weekend. I fed it a little yeast nutrient, too, but otherwise it is just apple juice and the starter.

I'll post updates in this thread as they occur.

Minimal airlock activity as of today, but a decent amount of suds, so it is definately doing something in there. No bizarre odors, yet.

Well, a few days into the experiment, two things are readily apparent.

1) The 1 gallon jug I am using may not be salvageable. The yeast puts off a very sticky foam that seems to have coated the area 1-2 inches above the fluids.

2) While fermentation is occuring after a quick infusion of some active sourdough starter earlier in the week, it is a slow process, and the emissions do not smell like fermenting apple juice, but rather standard sourdough bread emissions. I suspect that the yeast either cannot ferment the apple juice and the scent and bubbles are purely from the starter's flour, the yeast already has fermented the juice, or the smell of the lactobacillus emissions is simply overwhelming any apple odor.

We'll see what happens. On a more positive note, my high-gravity cider recipe seems to be progressing rather well. It has been bubbling very fast since Saturday, which I am glad to see, as my last run with the sweet mead yeast was fairly un-entertaining. It fermented...but very quietly.

Okay...

Not a total failure as experiments go, but I decided to dump it today, mostly because I needed the airlock back.

Results:

1) There certainly was some alcohol. Not a whole lot, but there was some.
2) Lots of scum. Had to pour off a film.
3) Taste was surprisingly nowhere near as nasty as predicted. Actually, it tasted like watered-down ketchup.
4) Smelled like sourdough starter.