Batch or Fly sparging

I want to start AG brewing... Ice read a ton and watched alot of videos... But one questions I can't seem to answer myself is what exactly are the processes for these types of sparging?

And what is brew house efficiency and attenuation?

Batch sparging: draining the mash tun then filing and draining again in batches (does not need to be completely drained and refilled)
Fly sparging: filling and draining the mash tun a the same time to maintain a constant water level in the tun through the process.

Brew house efficiency: Roughly the amount of usable sugars made available for the yeast in the fermenter compared to the theoretical amount possible given the amount and type of grain and the final batch volume in the fermenter.

Attenuation: Amount of available sugar converted by yeast into CO2 and Alcohol (plus other stuff) It's a sort of measure of yeast efficiency.

The googles can be your friend. These topics have been covered ad nauseum. Also try http://howtobrew.com/

If you've already been reading and watching videos, maybe you just need different explanations...

Batch sparging is rinsing the grains by adding large amts of hot water, stirring well, then draining off the wort.
Fly sparging is rinsing the grains by adding water slowly to the top of the grain bed while running the wort off from the bottom.

Brewhouse efficiency is the comparison between the absolute maximum amount of sugar you could have gotten from the grain into the fermenter vs. what you actually got. You lose potential sugar from the mash, from the lauter, and from the kettle when transferring to the fermenter (not from boiling).

APPARENT Attenuation is [(OG-FG)/(OG-1)] x 100. It's a comparison of the original wort density compared to the final beer density, or in essence how much of the original sugar in the wort was fermented. It's an "apparent" attenuation, not the real attenuation.

LakewoodBrew said:

Batch sparging: draining the mash tun then filing and draining again in batches (does not need to be completely drained and refilled)
Fly sparging: filling and draining the mash tun a the same time to maintain a constant water level in the tun through the process.

Brew house efficiency: Roughly the amount of usable sugars made available for the yeast in the fermenter compared to the theoretical amount possible given the amount and type of grain and the final batch volume in the fermenter.

Attenuation: Amount of available sugar converted by yeast into CO2 and Alcohol (plus other stuff) It's a sort of measure of yeast efficiency.

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So if I'm using a cooler MLT with batch sparging do you let the grain bed run dry and then fill it back up w the sparge water and then drain it off to prepare for the boil?

You can. When I used a batch sparge process I used a slightly differne process

1. slowly drain the MLT (should be about 50% of your pre-boil volume)
2. slowly add about half the sparge water, being sure to pour it over the top of the grain bed in a circular pattern so water flows over all of the grain.
3. slowly drain MLT
4. slowly add remaining sparge water (i usually over shot my pre-boil by about .5 gal)
5. slowly drain MLT and add last running to reach pre-boil volume. (you should have a little left over. .25-.5 gal, I suggest drinking some, it should be very mildly sweet and taste like cereal tea [use your imagination])

note emphasis on slowly... you don't want to stir up the grain bed between sparges or you will get a bunch of protein haze inducing garbage in your wort.

If you really want to limit protien haze you can take the first .5 gal of the run-off (step 1) and add it back into the MLT so it gets filtered by the grain bed.

I rarely do this, but it's good practice.

This should help.

BobbyM to the rescue

I batch sparge.
Strike with water at a 1.25qt to pound of grain - Mash as needed.
Drain 1 gallon into pitcher and return to mash tun( Vorlauf)
Drain mash tun 1 gallon at a time into boil kettle so I know how much is in there.
Figure out how much more I need to reach my boil volume then add 1 gallon to that total and divide by 2
Using various web sites and calculators figure out how hot the new "batch" of water needs to be to make the grain bed approx 170F
Make temp and add to mash tun - stir the living pis out of it, wait 10-15 minutes, drain 1 gallon and return to mash tun
Drain 1 gallon at a time into boil kettle
Repeat with 2nd "Batch" stop when I have enough to boil.


Tim

LakewoodBrew said:

note emphasis on slowly... you don't want to stir up the grain bed between sparges or you will get a bunch of protein haze inducing garbage in your wort.

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What you're describing is actually a modified fly sparge??? or something... you've never heard of vorlaufing, or actually vorlaufed? Vorlaufing is emptying the runnings and recirculate them to the top of the grain bed until the runnings are CLEAR, THEN actually start running off into the boil kettle. You should vorlauf anytime the grain bed is disturbed and the runnings become cloudy, such as when you get a stuck sparge, are starting to run off a batch sparge amount, or are starting your fly sparge.

When batch sparging you usually 1) vorlauf and drain off the first runnings (possibly after adding a mash out infusion of water or heating the mash to mash out temp), 2) dump half the sparge water into the grain and stir it well, 3) vorlauf and drain off the second runnings, 4) dump the other half the sparge water into the grain and stir it well, 5) volauf and drain off the third runnings.

LakewoodBrew said:

If you really want to limit protien haze you can take the first .5 gal of the run-off (step 1) and add it back into the MLT so it gets filtered by the grain bed.

I rarely do this, but it's good practice.

Click to expand...

Sorry I was typing while you posted this... that's called vorlaufing... usually it takes a bit more than 1/2 gallon to get the runnings clear for me though.

I'm aware of what it's called.. but thanks. And no, I generally don't vorlauf unless I'm looking at some cloudy first runnings, and that's not been a significant issue with any brews I've made. A slight chill haze is not a real concern for me.

Frodo said:

What you're describing is actually a modified fly sparge??? or something... you've never heard of vorlaufing, or actually vorlaufed? Vorlaufing is emptying the runnings and recirculate them to the top of the grain bed until the runnings are CLEAR, THEN actually start running off into the boil kettle. You should vorlauf anytime the grain bed is disturbed and the runnings become cloudy, such as when you get a stuck sparge, are starting to run off a batch sparge amount, or are starting your fly sparge.

When batch sparging you usually 1) vorlauf and drain off the first runnings (possibly after adding a mash out infusion of water or heating the mash to mash out temp), 2) dump half the sparge water into the grain and stir it well, 3) vorlauf and drain off the second runnings, 4) dump the other half the sparge water into the grain and stir it well, 5) volauf and drain off the third runnings.

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That's nearly exactly what I described... I just didn't push the need for vorlaufing, and you don't need to stir between batches IMO. Stir or don't stir, you can get excellent results, I just don't care for disturbing the grain bed between runnings.

LakewoodBrew said:

I'm aware of what it's called.. but thanks. And no, I generally don't vorlauf unless I'm looking at some cloudy first runnings, and that's not been a significant issue with any brews I've made. A slight chill haze is not a real concern for me.

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I didn't think it contributes to chill haze, nor did I think it's protein; rather that it's just small dimension husk material that you don't want in your wort if you can help it.

LakewoodBrew said:

That's nearly exactly what I described... I just didn't push the need for vorlaufing, and you don't need to stir between batches IMO. Stir or don't stir, you can get excellent results, I just don't care for disturbing the grain bed between runnings.

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I think the general consensus is dumping the batches of sparge water in, stirring, vorlaufing, then running off... For what it's worth. I think you gain some efficiency from stirring rather than pouring gently. If what you do works for you great.

Raw husk or fiber should have little if any impact on the brew. It will most likely settle out in the break before getting into the fermenter. The white cloudy material is mostly protein and is mostly removed from the clear wort as break material, but too much protein from the runnings and you will end up with free protein in beer and promote chill haze (according to my research). The grain bed acts as a filter and collects a lot of that (note the sludge on the top of the grain bed).

Frodo said:

I think the general consensus is dumping the batches of sparge water in, stirring, vorlaufing, then running off... For what it's worth. I think you gain some efficiency from stirring rather than pouring gently. If what you do works for you great.

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I agree, there may be some efficiency gained, but for a simple method for a new brewer the other method has a few less steps. I have since moved to a fly sparge for all of my brews. Simple process with rock and roll results. Just takes a little more equipment / setup.

So what is the plus and minus of each type of method. I fly sparge and have only ever done this method because it is how I was taught. But I don't know which is a better technique. Is one better than the other? I've heard that batch sparging has a greater risk of a stuck mash, that's all I know.

Possible to get higher efficiency with fly since it can yield a better rinse depending on equipment setup. Batch may be quicker and still get really good efficiency. Again, this topic has been covered ad nauseum. Google search.

I prefer fly, as I can "set it and forget it" only checking once in a while, and usually get great efficiencies.

It really comes down to what you prefer though, I don't think there are any strong advantages of either.

EDIT: Equipment does matter though which method will work. Such as if you have only a braided line in a rectangular cooler; I think that is destined for a batch sparge only... with fly sparging you need to eliminate channeling and that's best done with a good manifold or a false bottom in a generally smaller diameter taller mash tun.

I second that assessment. Batch is faster but the speed means nothing unless you can raise to a boil faster than a fly sparge rate. I like fly sparge for set it and let it run, it's easy and yields the maximum efficiency. But if you don't have the equipment for a good fly sparge you end up with a mess, channeling and tannin extraction are risks with fly.