Beer problem: Need advice.

I just tapped a keg, and for the first time ever I am disappointed with my own brew. I'd love some advice. First some background:

My last batch was a clone based on Pete's wicked. Partial mash and LME. Brew went as expected. Results were EXCELLENT! *Crystal* clear, and definitely the best tasting brew I have ever had. Overcarbonated at 2.6, but yields a nice microbubble head like Guiness. Beer is so good I decided to forgo the honey wheat planned and make another batch.

Batch 2. PWA clone. Store had no LME, sub'd comparable DME. Chilled to 75 and pitched a Wyeast 1056. Yeast was 6 mo old, started it 2 days prior. Expansion was normal, but fermentation never started. Aerate for 15 minutes and pitched another fresh smack pack 24 hours after first. Fermentation commenced as expected for 4 days. Racked into secondary. Crystal clear rack. Very little activity in secondary, but much floccation an settling. Farily normal. Anyway, 4 days pass and I rack the beer into a corny. Carbonate at 15#

Now for the problem... After a week, the beer was flat as day old beer. I shook the keg for 15 min while it absorbed gas readily. Tap next day. Flat. Wait 2 more days. Flat. 20 more minutes of shaking until beer stops taking gas. Wait 24 hours. Beer is not flat. Overcarbonated, but very similar to above so its acceptable.

On to the first glass: Good color, but it *sucks*. Bland, watery. Bad chill haze, and has a non-chill haze as well. Nothing at all like the first batch. It even looks much lighter in the tap hose. AND, it goes stone flat in the glass in about 20 minutes. 2nd and 3rd glasses yield the same results.

Any ideas? How did I get from the best beer of my life to the worst in just one brew?

Philip

Sounds like a CO2 leak and not the beer. Check the system for leaks.

Brewsmith said:

Sounds like a CO2 leak and not the beer. Check the system for leaks.

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I'll do that tomorrow AM. FWIW, there are no obvious signs of leakage. LP Gauge is steady at 15#. Beer is still heady 24hrs after 2nd shaking session.

I'm hoping that a few more weeks of aging will fix the flavor on this dud. It was better as just wort...

How long is your hose from the keg to the tap? That can also make a difference in carbonation in the glass.

Part of the problem probably lies in your Extract-- DME from one manufacturer is bound to be different from the LME by another manufacturer (or even the same manufacturer for that matter). Don't know about the CO2 issue, but a small leak may be at fault (although I think it would have drained your tank).

Brewsmith said:

How long is your hose from the keg to the tap? That can also make a difference in carbonation in the glass.

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5-6ft of 3/16" clear poly. Terminated with a picnic tap.

pldoolittle said:

5-6ft of 3/16" clear poly. Terminated with a picnic tap.

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That's about right so that's not the problem.

Also-- old yeast can ferment very differently. . . I've experienced this a couple of times.

Biermann said:

Part of the problem probably lies in your Extract-- DME from one manufacturer is bound to be different from the LME by another manufacturer (or even the same manufacturer for that matter). Don't know about the CO2 issue, but a small leak may be at fault (although I think it would have drained your tank).

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Yea, I wasn't real keen on changing, but the LHBS was out of amber LME.

I'll soap up the setup for leaks tomorrow. Still confuses me why the beer is carbonated on pour, but dead flat 20 min later. And the glasses are my "beer only" glasses hand cleaned by me. I doubt soap residue is at work.

One other thought. The taste reminds me of that twang a mass market beer gets after it has been heat cycled.

Any suggestions for salvaging this keg?

Give it more time. From the first post, it seems that it was only about 8 days from start to in the keg. It that right?

Brewsmith said:

Give it more time. From the first post, it seems that it was only about 8 days from start to in the keg. It that right?

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Yea. 8-10ish. Definitely shy of 2 weeks. I didn't take a hydrometer reading because it was dead and floccating in the secondary for 2-3 days. In hindsight, that was a mistake.

As of this weekend, it's been about two weeks since kegging it.

I'd let the primary go for at least a week, and then that much again in secndary before kegging. I think part of what you're tasting is "green beer". I regularly let my primary go two weeks before racking, just to make sure the yeast clean up after themselves.

It's kind of funny. I had it in my head that this batch was identical to the previous one. But the more I visit this thread, the more I realize that it was very different. LME vs. DME. Aeration vs. no aeration. Old yeast introduced. Double yeast. Shorter time in the fermenter.

About "Green Beer"; did you mean green as in not yet aged properly, or green as in not completely fermented?

About force carb; Found no leaks. Is there any other reason that a beer under 15psi wouldn't absorb the gas in 4-7 days? I'm gassing it in the fridge at about 40deg. Fridge won't go any higher temp (dial is on 1 of 10) w/o an external control, and that's out because the DW is using the freezer portion (also on 1) for food storage.

pldoolittle said:

It's kind of funny. I had it in my head that this batch was identical to the previous one. But the more I visit this thread, the more I realize that it was very different. LME vs. DME. Aeration vs. no aeration. Old yeast introduced. Double yeast. Shorter time in the fermenter.

About "Green Beer"; did you mean green as in not yet aged properly, or green as in not completely fermented?

About force carb; Found no leaks. Is there any other reason that a beer under 15psi wouldn't absorb the gas in 4-7 days? I'm gassing it in the fridge at about 40deg. Fridge won't go any higher temp (dial is on 1 of 10) w/o an external control, and that's out because the DW is using the freezer portion (also on 1) for food storage.

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You'll carb better at lower temps--may be a problem for you--check a carbonation chart. If you want 2.5 volumes of gas in your solution, dropping the temp will allow you keep your regulator set lower in order to achieve the same effect. I'd drop you temp and wait longer.

Green beer=unaged beer.

Biermann said:

You'll carb better at lower temps--may be a problem for you--check a carbonation chart. If you want 2.5 volumes of gas in your solution, dropping the temp will allow you keep your regulator set lower in order to achieve the same effect. I'd drop your temp and wait longer.

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You think so? I show that for 40deg, 2.5volumes is 12-13psi. I'm at 15psi or about 2.75 volumes. What temp would you recommend?

Biermann said:

Green beer=unaged beer.

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That's what I was hoping you meant. It would suck to have 5 gallons of somewhat alcoholic wort. It's been awhile since I brewed last (new job), so I guess patience is a skill I will have to re-acquire. That's hard to do when there's no homebrew on tap.