I want short lines.... how?

Hi all.
I have my keg system set up and for now for simplicity i am just using 3/16 line 12 feet or so seems to keep my system balanced and poring well using picnic taps. the line is simply coiled ontop of the kegs in the fridge.

I would prefer to get down to a 3-4 foot line if possible, or even shorter. Seems the beer in the lines goes flatish over a few days so the first 1/3? or so of a new pour isnt carbed the way i like it and as such the first beer seems flatter than i like unless i dump it and i dont want to be dumping beer all the time.

Anyone have experience with this? Im using sankey kegs and taps, i had seen a swizzle stick kinda thing but they looked to be applicable to ball or pin lock setups

IMO, drinking an undercarbed 1/3 pint seems like a small price to pay. Maybe flow control faucets are an option?

You could try the swizzle stick option inside the lines I suppose, another idea is to use smaller diameter lines though you may need to get clever with that one.

Simple: Flow Control taps. They let you pour slower with a lever adjustment, as needed, simulating the slower pressure drop time of a longer beverage line. They go for about $50 each.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=6824973
http://www.homebrewing.org/Perlick-650SS-flow-control-faucet_p_4896.html

For the 1/3 pint, i agree if i am having multiple of the same keg, probably not a big deal, but i might just have one and then not again for a few days and to have semi flat beer all the time seems pointless.

I thought about smaller lines, not sure on 1/8 inch. I may try that but im hoping to see what has worked for others before reinventing the wheel. I havent seen much on using 1/8 inch other than a few recommendations that its too small but its definitely the way i was leaning if i cant find other options. The swizzle sticks in the lines i thought would end up moving around in the lines and might cause more turbulence and degassing? maybe not thought.

re flow control taps, what i have read is you still need the longer line set or it will foam? maybe im missing something there?

afss said:

re flow control taps, what i have read is you still need the longer line set or it will foam? maybe im missing something there?

Click to expand...

No, the entire point of it is that you can use shorter lines. Check the video in that thread link where the guy carbed his stuff super-high and poured smoothly with the flow lever on a low setting. I have my system balanced for 10ft at 4 Centigrade with 4 regular taps. I also have 1 flow-control, on a 5-foot line, with the flow rate adjusted to work at that pressure.

The length of the lines affects how long the liquid takes to move from a higher pressure area to a lower pressure area. If it moves too fast, the CO2 comes out of solution and you get foam. If it moves slow enough, the CO2 stays in solution and you get the properly carbed beer which you desire.
The flow control similarly slows down the rate of pressure drop, and lets you adjust it on the fly.


read this: http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/

afss said:

.....Seems the beer in the lines goes flatish over a few days so the first 1/3? or so of a new pour isnt carbed the way i like it and as such the first beer seems flatter than i like unless i dump it and i dont want to be dumping beer all the time......

Click to expand...

After re-reading your original post, a further comment. It seems to me that in a sealed, pressurized system, CO2 would not drop out of the beer just because it's in a beer line, as long as the beer line is at the same temperature as the keg. If the beer line is warm, carbonation can be reduced. Does your fridge have constant air movement or could the temperature be stratifying, cold bottom and warm top?

I haven't noticed this on my setup, with 14' - 3/16ID lines coiled over 1 1/2 feet above the kegs, but I have constant air movement.

A proposed experiment: From steady state, fill half a glass and measure temperature. Continue filling half glasses and take immediate temperature measurements. Once the beer line empties which may be warmest, additional beer comes from the bottom of the keg, which may be coldest. If there's more than a few degrees difference, it might be worth the effort to try to get that beer line cooled. Maybe coil it lower in the fridge or circulate the air.

Yeah this part doesnt make sense to me either as i dont seem to be losing pressure in the system. The lines are cold and in the fridge coiled above the kegs. I have a thermometer in the fridge with two probes and there can be 1 degree different between the bottom and the top of the keg, but i wouldnt think 1 degree would make much of a difference.... but maybe it does?

My first pour is usually more carbed. Weird.

But there's no need to drink an over or undercarbed beer. I usually pour about 4oz, drink it, and then pour my beer.

My first second or two is usually a bit more foamy if it's been sitting for a while. That makes the first 3 seconds a bit more flat.

I see bartenders shooting a second or two before pouring in the glass when the tap hasn't been used recently. I think it's the nature of the beast.

Short lines are great, I'm just not sure what an excellent solution is. I'd be curious to see those adjustable taps in action. I think they sound neat.

afss said:

Hi all.
I have my keg system set up and for now for simplicity i am just using 3/16 line 12 feet or so seems to keep my system balanced and poring well using picnic taps. the line is simply coiled ontop of the kegs in the fridge.

I would prefer to get down to a 3-4 foot line if possible, or even shorter. Seems the beer in the lines goes flatish over a few days so the first 1/3? or so of a new pour isnt carbed the way i like it and as such the first beer seems flatter than i like unless i dump it and i dont want to be dumping beer all the time.

Anyone have experience with this? Im using sankey kegs and taps, i had seen a swizzle stick kinda thing but they looked to be applicable to ball or pin lock setups

Click to expand...

This is a great thread covering your question. A super cheap and apparently effective solution. I have not done it. 12ft of lines and no problems. That C02 goes nowhere in the keg or in the lines, the molecules don't know the difference.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=100151

Image by @pjj2ba

FWIW, a quick calculation puts 2.2 fluid ounces in 12 feet of 3/16 ID line.

Gavin C said:

This is a great thread covering your question. A super cheap and apparently effective solution. I have not done it. 12ft of lines and no problems. That C02 goes nowhere in the keg or in the lines, the molecules don't know the difference.



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=100151



Image by @pjj2baView attachment 287500

Click to expand...

I wonder if the plastic used is food grade. Looks like a great idea, but hate to have my yummy beer sit on nasty plastic.