How to build a control panel (part 1)

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Wow that is detailed! It probably would have taken you far less time than writing it up if you would have just come out to my place and built the enclosure for me already! :p
You're absolutely right! It look me a lot longer to photograph and document it than to actually build it.

Kal
 
Kal,

You think it might be possible to get a pdf or easily printable version?

jeffr
 
Kal
You are surely first post worthy. I stand among a throng of attempts to match the engineering and "Je Nous Se Qua" you bring to the table. Cheers and many thanks for your efforts. I am about to buy you a beer (or many).
MS
 
Kal,

You think it might be possible to get a pdf or easily printable version?

jeffr

I posted this previously when someone asked:

"Afraid not, sorry! Viewing it online helps pay for the dedicated server I have to pay for to host the content. If everyone printed it out and walked away, it wouldn't last very long."

The other issue is that I still go back constantly to the other articles and tweak/fix/edit small things here and there, and add extra explanations when something isn't 100% clear after people email with questions. If I had a PDF/print version, I'd have to edit in two places. Twice as much work.

Now that being said, I will likely be offering a complete downloadable/printable PDF version of the entire brewery built instructions (not just the control panel) once the entire writeup is done. This will not be free however. It'll likely cost a few dollars to offset the first point I made above.

The other issue is that unless you have a colour printer, following a printed version would not be easy.

Dead sexy. However I think you need to start it's own thread for part 2, and part 3, etc.
It's done. There are only 2 parts. I figured those that are interested in part 2 are those that already ready part 1 so I posted here. The two parts go together so any questions/comments from one would also relate to the next. Unforutunately I can't edit the thread title...

Kal
You are surely first post worthy. I stand among a throng of attempts to match the engineering and "Je Nous Se Qua" you bring to the table. Cheers and many thanks for your efforts. I am about to buy you a beer (or many).
MS
Got it! Thank you for the generous donation Mark! It's truly appreciated and goes directly to help with my monthly hosting costs. (Ok, it may also help fund some future beer related projects ... which of course will be documented and posted online... ) :)

Kal
 
Point taken kal. I would pay a few bucks for a printable version. How about a few bucks to access a more easily printable version of the website. Just offering suggestions.
 
How about a few bucks to access a more easily printable version of the website.
Something that takes the content and creates PDFs from each of the articles for purchase? I'd have to code something to do that from scratch or find something to do that (I've never heard or seen anything like that).

Kal
 
Awesome control panel writeup, I will definitely be implementing some of your ideas in my next control panel.


On an (almost) irrelevant note:
I'm curious why you need an entire dedicated server for your site? I have a few dedicated servers myself and that's for serving over 1,000,000 pageviews a day (every day). Please note I'm not bashing on you wanting to recoup some costs and the time it took to put this incredibly detailed guide together.
 
Kal,
Can you explain the shunt that you have in your control panel? I'm planning to run two 5500W elements at the same time and was trying to figure out what I would need if I did something similar to your layout. I'm running 60A into the panel but not sure if the shunt would limit what I'm trying to do.
 
On an (almost) irrelevant note:
I'm curious why you need an entire dedicated server for your site? I have a few dedicated servers myself and that's for serving over 1,000,000 pageviews a day (every day). Please note I'm not bashing on you wanting to recoup some costs and the time it took to put this incredibly detailed guide together.
I'm running other sites as well. One of the biggest reasons for going dedicated is previously (on shared setups) I had had my server IP blacklisted twice due to nimrods with other sites on the same server being hacked due to insecure passwords. Wasn't able to send/receive emails for many days. I've also had SQL performance problems since most ISPs tend to overload their servers. Now since I'm all alone I can only blame myself if something happens. ;)

Kal,
Can you explain the shunt that you have in your control panel? I'm planning to run two 5500W elements at the same time and was trying to figure out what I would need if I did something similar to your layout. I'm running 60A into the panel but not sure if the shunt would limit what I'm trying to do.

This large amount of current for an amp meter does not directly flow through the amp meter. Instead, a shunt is used with a precisely known resistance. Current passes through the shunt and the amp meter measures the associated voltage drop and translates it into amps. Amp meters and shunts are typically matched and sold in pairs. You'll need a shunt that is at least 60A with a meter that is matched to it.

Kal
 
Kal,
Is there a particular reason why you used the DPDT relays? Woudn't a DPST work in this case? Also, since I hoping to run 60A directly to my panel would a 30A 4PST or 4PDT suffice?

Thanks for the clarification!
 
Is there a particular reason why you used the DPDT relays? Woudn't a DPST work in this case?

[EDIT] Yes! Sorry, I was thinking you said SPDT and answer differently originally. Just make sure that the switches are normally open (NO).

I've edited my post here.

Yes, DPST (douple pole single throw) would work for all 3 relays as it would still:

1. completely cut both HOTs from getting to the element (HLT and BK relay).
2. completely cut off both HOTs from getting into the control panel (MAIN POWER IN relay).

Read the "how it works" section I wrote here for more info on why/how you want to cut both off:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=13

If you look at my pictures, I don't use the second "THROW" at all (it comes out the top of the relays).
It doesn't add any cost to the relays however and DPDT are much easier to find than DPST.

Also, since I hoping to run 60A directly to my panel would a 30A 4PST or 4PDT suffice?
I don't know. I can't answer that question without some sort of drawing or understanding of what you intend to do.

Since your setup's going to be different, I suggest you figure out what your goals are and then draw it up and start a build thread to get comments from people. That's probably the best way. There's a million ways to skin a cat. My intent was to show a way to build a setup that I consider to be very safe and reliable where 30A max is used (1 element at a time). Not everyone has the same needs or expectations.

Kal
 
Heads up!

Anyone who's been building this control panel: Last night I changed the ground wiring from daisy chaining grounds between devices to a star configuration (every device has its own ground line to the chassis) as this is the more "correct" way to do this.

All of the pictures where any ground wiring is seen has now been changed (a real pain in the butt) including the main ground wiring instructions here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=8

You will now require 11 feet of 10ga GREEN T90/THHN/THWN wire instead of only 3. ;)

This is one of those "it really won't matter in this setup" type things, but I figured since I'm trying to do this 100% correctly that I should change my grounding scheme to be 100% correct.

Thanks to one of my local brewing guys (Barry) for pointing this out!

Kal
 
Thanks Kal! I noticed nothing on the second throw so that's why I needed the clarification. I figured it was related to cost or availability. I think this information will help with my power input question too.
 
I'd like to be the first person to say:

Kal, I absolutely hate you.

Because of you I now have a never ending supply of eBay stuff rolling into my house daily and a wife wondering if I am building a nuclear device in the spare room.


On the plus side it is doing absolutely wonderful things to my eBay rating :rockin:
But god knows what the FBI and HS are thinking and wondering with me getting boxes from China all the time.



:mug:
Seriously though amazing build. I'm nearly replicating it exactly (that GFCI cord is available on ebay right now FYI...he still has 4 left) with the exception of 15G Blichmann's instead of your 20's cause I still do a lot of 5G batches along with my 10G ones

I'd been working on a drawing for ages...learning lots of electrical stuff but even when I got how I wanted it running I didn't know what parts to get to make it happen.
That's where yours helped out a ton.



The only suggestion I would make to you (if you are even taking suggestions) would be the ability to download a CSV sheet on each of the parts pages so it is easier to make shopping lists and keep track of what you have.
That's what I did while I was building mine so I could keep track of what I got vs what I needed.

Don't worry...I always went to your site first to click to the supplier :rockin:




..edit.. Oh one last think...warn people Ikea will rape you for shipping if you aren't paying attention for those handlebars. I think they wanted $80 from me and the store is only 60m from where I work. But if you go to the Philly store you might want to pay the $80 cause that damn place is setup like a lab mouse maze.
 
I'd like to be the first person to say:

Kal, I absolutely hate you.

Because of you I now have a never ending supply of eBay stuff rolling into my house daily and a wife wondering if I am building a nuclear device in the spare room.
The good news is that you'll still have about 1/2 as many parts as I do. I went through a ton of stuff before settling in on what I wanted to use. I even have spare working timers, switches, buttons, etc. In some cases (don't tell my wife) I bought seconds simply because I thought they would match my other controls better. ;)

I now have enough spare parts to build almost a whole second control panel.

On the plus side it is doing absolutely wonderful things to my eBay rating :rockin:
But god knows what the FBI and HS are thinking and wondering with me getting boxes from China all the time.
Just wait until you order the fan system I used to ventilate (the next article I'm working on)). The fan's mostly used by people who grow pot so all of the sites that sell them advertise that they ship in "discrete brown paper boxes with no labels". I hate to think I've been put on some government drug list somewhere simply because I bought a good fan. :)

I'm nearly replicating it exactly (that GFCI cord is available on ebay right now FYI...he still has 4 left)
Yup! I saw it! He mis-spelt the name so I've changed the wording on my search used on my site so that it's found when you use my links..

Thanks for the compliments and suggestions! It's all considered!

Take pictures too! I'd love to post some on the site.

Kal
 
Just a quick thank you to Kal for creating an amazing resource. I started thinking about putting together an electric HERMS/HLT over a year ago. After I did some research I all but abandoned the idea due to my lack of knowledge when it comes to electrical components. After reading parts 1 and 2 of the control panel assembly I feel like I can tackle this project by myself, make the changes I want to make in my build, not ask 1000 questions that have already been answered, and NOT kill myself!
 
Just a quick thank you to Kal for creating an amazing resource. I started thinking about putting together an electric HERMS/HLT over a year ago. After I did some research I all but abandoned the idea due to my lack of knowledge when it comes to electrical components. After reading parts 1 and 2 of the control panel assembly I feel like I can tackle this project by myself, make the changes I want to make in my build, not ask 1000 questions that have already been answered, and NOT kill myself!

+1

Although I built my control panel just before he published his CP writeup, I did get some ideas from him in other areas of my build.
 
You're absolutely right! It look me a lot longer to photograph and document it than to actually build it.

Kal

Yes, but the WAY you documented it is tremendous. I especially like the bolded links to all the places you got your gear. Outstanding attention to detail! :mug:
 
+1 to Scuba Steve. The level of documentation helps those of us with no electrical background to learn without getting lost in schematics, debates about minutia.. Kal's been extremely responsive to my few emails to him, which is amazing given how much time he's putting into the documentation.
 
Kal, your site was the catalyst for me to finish my system. I have an electric kettle and HLT that I love but no automation. I just purchased all the parts for the control panel you described (quite well to be exactly). I plan to build the panel exactly the same as to not recreate the wheel. Your design fits my system exactly. Thanks again and be on the look out for some $$ as a small thank you for your hard work.
 
Kal, your site was the catalyst for me to finish my system. I have an electric kettle and HLT that I love but no automation. I just purchased all the parts for the control panel you described (quite well to be exactly). I plan to build the panel exactly the same as to not recreate the wheel. Your design fits my system exactly. Thanks again and be on the look out for some $$ as a small thank you for your hard work.

Excellent! Post pictures when you're done! I've love to see them.
If I get enough pictures I'll create a section on the site for "knock-offs". :)

Kal
 
Kal,

Love your site. The amount of detail you put into your brewery is amazing. Thanks for sharing. You'll be one of the many people I'll need to thank when my E-Brewery is up and running.

Cheers,

Tom
 
Some people have asked me about the logo/design/name used on the control panel:

TheElectricBrewery_final.jpg


I tried a bunch of different styles before settling on the one above. A good logo makes better beer. ;)

The logo of the hop was (ahem) stolen from somewhere off the internet (don't remember exactly where). It fits well since my favourite style to drink is typically hoppy american style APA/IPA/IIPA. I also like that it's somewhat vague for a non-brewer. My non-brewer friends don't know what it is and would have expected to see a glass of beer or grain or a barrel. That seems too obvious.

In retrospect I probably should have added a ".com" in there somehow too ... or used someone with artistic talents to draw up something nicer.

Some of the rejected names/designs:

logo_compilation.jpg


I still kinda like "The Electric Beer Store". It sounds oddly kitchy while at the same time being a bit odd/not making sense (i.e. how can a beer store be 'electric'??).

Kal
 
Bow and repeat with me: Kal is the electric King, we stand humble before him!

Where did you acquire your mad skills? Please don't tell us you taught yourself....
Mostly self taught/lots of research and reading to do what I've done here.

With that said, I was somewhat of an electronics geek as a kid growing up which led me to go off to study electrical/computer engineering ~20 years ago. The ironic part is undergrad elec engineering doesn't really show you much of anything hands on. I spent my days doing complex math and theory like converting from frequency domain to time domain (fun stuff! :cross:).

Anyone with a little bit of electronics experience won't have any problems understanding the types of control panels we use here. They're actually deceptively simple as they're mostly just a few very simple switches/controls. There's no actual discrete components like resistors, transistors, capacitors, integrated circuits, etc. That sort of circuit design is far more complex.

I've been told that I have a knack for taking complex subjects and making them easy to understand. If that's true I don't know where that skill came from. ;)

A few years ago I wanted to what's called 'greyscale and colour calibration' for my home theater (stuff that typically costs 100's of dollars to have someone come in and do for you) so I wrote a complete step-by-step DIY guide on it which has gotten good reviews. I suppose that was practice for a much more complex subject: Documenting my brewery build.

Kal
 
I've used your process!

And talked to you on the phone a few years ago - I had a VPH1292q in my theater for quite a while!

It was very helpful. :mug:

Now I sold my house and need to find new homes for the 1292, an 808s, and a 500...
 
Mostly self taught/lots of research and reading to do what I've done here.

With that said, I was somewhat of an electronics geek as a kid growing up which led me to go off to study electrical/computer engineering ~20 years ago. The ironic part is undergrad elec engineering doesn't really show you much of anything hands on. I spent my days doing complex math and theory like converting from frequency domain to time domain (fun stuff! :cross:).

Anyone with a little bit of electronics experience won't have any problems understanding the types of control panels we use here. They're actually deceptively simple as they're mostly just a few very simple switches/controls. There's no actual discrete components like resistors, transistors, capacitors, integrated circuits, etc. That sort of circuit design is far more complex.

I've been told that I have a knack at taking complex subjects and making them easy to understand. If that's true I don't know where that skill came from. ;)

A few years ago I wanted to what's called 'greyscale and colour calibration' for my home theater (stuff that typically costs 100's of dollars to have someone come in and do for you) so I wrote a complete step-by-step DIY guide on it which has gotten good reviews. I suppose that was practice for a much more complex subject: Documenting my brewery build.

Kal

Come on Kal, knock off all the mumbo-jumbo.

I'm bettin you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express... :D
 
So on the topic of this control panel that I am copying from Kal, I just ordered and received all the parts from Pioneer Breaker, these guys are the ones from Ebay where a lot of the parts Kal has a link to (electrical_parts is the ebay seller.) I talked to them on the phone and the prices and shipping were a lot better than ebay. PioneerBreaker.com. I ordered the 16x16x8 case and they sent me the 24x24x12....ought to be plenty of space now! Not that this is what made me happy about my order, they were very helpful on the phone and the stuff shipped quickly. So off to construct the panel!
 
So on the topic of this control panel that I am copying from Kal, I just ordered and received all the parts from Pioneer Breaker, these guys are the ones from Ebay where a lot of the parts Kal has a link to (electrical_parts is the ebay seller.) I talked to them on the phone and the prices and shipping were a lot better than ebay. PioneerBreaker.com. I ordered the 16x16x8 case and they sent me the 24x24x12....ought to be plenty of space now! Not that this is what made me happy about my order, they were very helpful on the phone and the stuff shipped quickly. So off to construct the panel!
The shipping costs are somewhat estimates ... I usually just order everything and then click on the "request total from seller".

Kal
 
Your whole site is incredible. I'm following your instructions on how to build quick disconnect hoses now and will later be building myself a new HLT with HERMs coil just like yours! Thanks for all your hard work on this! Someday I may even try to tackle your very impressive control panel!
 
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