new to cider with so many Questions ???

Hi to everyone from sunny Sydney, Australia.

I have started properly brewing cider about 3 months ago with mixed results - my first cider turned out okay - very alcoholic, not to sweet more dry really but just lacked the nice apple flavour so what can I do to get more apple flavour ???

I have now tried a mixture where I added a bottle of apple schnapps for flavour and a little bit more sweetness - was this a good idea ???

My next batch I plan on using juice from the supermarket (unfortunately apples are far to expensive) and I'm hoping this will make a nice cider.

Any advice/help would be really really appreciated !!

Thanks

Still trying to perfect this myself! Welcome to the boards (even though you are a damn ozzie)

More apple flavour options:
1. Stop fermentation early (bottle early + pasteurize)
2. Let it ferment to dry (1.000 or lower) and backsweeten with apple juice concentrate or (like me) plain old apple juice + Pasteurize
3. Make some Apfelwein (Edwort's recipe is floating around) and let it age for 6 months to a year

Never heard of the schnapps being tried, let us know what its like!

I use store juice too, its cheap! I don't have any orchards near me to get pressed cider either, so its pretty much the only option.

Also, what yeast are you using? Wine and cider yeast will dry the crap out of your cider and give it that alcoholic taste. Ale yeast like Nottingham or Safale S-05 will still take the cider to 1.000 if you let it, but its much more forgiving with flavours.

Hey man, I'm in Perth. Are you trying to roughly emulate a commercial brand when you refer to apple flavour? I've found the easiest and most successful brews are the simplest recipes and they turn out to be much drier than the popular stuff.

Sweetening with concentrates after fermentation can make a big difference too as well as the patience to bulk age.

Acquiring a taste for the drier stuff has benefited my brewing by experimenting with subtle flavour additions that aren't drowned out by overpowering sweetness.

Try adding chopped fruits to secondary fermentations to increase the flavours you're after.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replys.

Safa - since I am new to this, forgive my lack of knowledge - to backsweeten, do I need to use apple concentrate that doesn't have sugar ??? or if it does just let it re-ferment ???

I will check with my local brew shop to see if he has the yeast you suggest !!

also have you tried a pear cider using store juice ???

So far the schnapps hasn't seemed to do anything of significance !!



Fossey - I'm not really trying to emulate any brand in particular but I have been trying to find one that I like and can try to emulate !!......Im trying for a drier cider with a nice apple/pear taste (I plan on a pear cider next) if that is possible.

I do agree, I have so far enjoyed the drier cider that I have been making, i struggle on brand cider now - although i am after a bit more apple flavour !!

I will try adding fruit to the cider along with concentrate - but after primary do I simply add the fruit/sweetener and leave to re-ferment ???

Thanks for all you advice, its much appreciated

jimmyhuskins said:

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replys.

Safa - since I am new to this, forgive my lack of knowledge - to backsweeten, do I need to use apple concentrate that doesn't have sugar ??? or if it does just let it re-ferment ???

I will check with my local brew shop to see if he has the yeast you suggest !!

also have you tried a pear cider using store juice ???

So far the schnapps hasn't seemed to do anything of significance !!

Fossey - I'm not really trying to emulate any brand in particular but I have been trying to find one that I like and can try to emulate !!......Im trying for a drier cider with a nice apple/pear taste (I plan on a pear cider next) if that is possible.

I do agree, I have so far enjoyed the drier cider that I have been making, i struggle on brand cider now - although i am after a bit more apple flavour !!

I will try adding fruit to the cider along with concentrate - but after primary do I simply add the fruit/sweetener and leave to re-ferment ???

Thanks for all you advice, its much appreciated

Click to expand...

The kicker is after you back sweeten you have to heat pasteurized or use sorbate to halt yeast reproduction...but if you sorbate you have to use a keg for carbonation.

Heat pasteurization is kind of a time consuming endeavor...but it's cheap and works well.

Jimmy: Afraid the apple juice concentrate will add to the sweetness of the cider. If you let it ferment out again, you will be back to where you started. I didn't realize you might want a dry cider. I think the best bet for you might be to bulk age the stuff. The apfelwein recipe I mentioned calls for 6 months of aging, a lot of people seem to do a full year. I know it takes a long time but they all seem to say that after about 6 months they get a really strong apple taste with a dry cider, sounds like its right up your alley. I like the sweeter stuff, that's why I back sweeten and then pasteurize to keep the sweetness + Apple flavour.

Hope that helps a little, I'm working flat out like a lizard drinking!

If you have fermented to dry, you can add concentrate to prime which should add a little apple flavour also. Just read the nutrition info on the concentrate and add the appropriate amount to give you 28 grams (oz) of sugar for each gallon (roughly 4 L) of brew. This ratio will be pretty safe to carb your bottles without causing them to explode and without needing to pasteurise (like bottle carbing a beer).

The fruit can be added to the empty secondary fermenter and your primary brew racked onto that. I have added fruit at initial pitching previously and it turned out great, adding at secondary should retain more flavour though.

For backsweetening / priming, this is done at bottling stage. For backsweetening, add concentrate to taste but if you add more than the ounce needed to prime, you will need to strongly consider pasteurising. If you were to add the concentrate and allow to ferment again, the concentrate would have its sugars fermented out and leave no real sweetening effect, just more alcohol.

If you like the drier ciders, try Westons ciders, I like the Old Rosie Scrumpy - it is still and comes in a 2L glass bottle which is great for trialling mini brews in afterwards! Dan Murphy's stock it here in WA. It will be easier to get a flavour closer to this than a Bulmers or similar...

As for making pear ciders (perry), definitely possible, same theory as for apple, I have made a gallon batch using Goulbourn Valley canned pear juice and brown sugar and found jars of pear concentrate on the internet to prime with. Tasted good at bottling but I may have over sweetened for my tastes.

Finally, if you do go down the pasteurising road, I have had great success doing whole 6 gallon batches in one hit in the dishwasher. Quicker and safer than the stove top in my opinion.

What I decided to do was add some lactose and see how that goes. The apple flavour was nice when I was bottling although, a tad sweet for me, so I think I will use this batch as a tester and just see what all my friends think of it.

Thanks for all your help guys.