Been getting poor effeciency, after a year of AG brewing

Before I get into it, let me say I did RTFM, I just got done reading the efficiency sticky


I switched to AG about a year ago. I usually hit a horrendous 60% effeciency. I have had as low as 49% (RIS) and as high as 69% (don't remember the beer). I have investigated numerous causes, and I'm starting to think it's my mash tun.

I use a coleman 5-day 70qt rectangular cooler with a bazooka screen. I'm starting to think I need to construct a CPVC manifold in order to get better effeciencies. I mean...the bazooka screen doesn't go very far into the cooler...at all.

Things I've tried to improve efficiency:
Using 5-star PH stabilizer
Continuous sparging
Batch sparging (numerous methods)

This is all really frustrating, mainly because I got through excessive amounts of grain which hurts the ol' wallet

Any tips?

I know you read "the manual" but read the all grain primer in my sig... without knowing your exact experiences with batch sparging, it's the best I can do right now.

My efficiency sucks also- but I am generally around 68-70% now. I blame it on the grain crush- I don't have my own mill. When I bought grain from a different LHBS while traveling, I got 55%! Now, I buy 80% of my crushed grain from austinhomebrew.com, and consistently hit 68-70%. To me, consistency is more important than the actual number, anyway. I'd be very upset if I got 55% one time and 85% another time!

Ah yes, grain crush:
I have gotten grain from austinhomebrew, LHBS, and my own barley crusher at stock settings...doesn't seem to make much difference.

Bobby_M said:

I know you read "the manual" but read the all grain primer in my sig... without knowing your exact experiences with batch sparging, it's the best I can do right now.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much, reading it now.

Here are two other sources of information you might find useful:

Maximizing Efficiency when Batch Sparging - Home Brew Forums

Batch Sparging Analysis - German Brewing Techniques

I went from about 65% to 75-80% by instead of adding grain to water I add water to the grain. I'm not sure why I was doing the opposite but once I stopped my effiency problems were fixed.

YooperBrew said:

To me, consistency is more important than the actual number, anyway. I'd be very upset if I got 55% one time and 85% another time!

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I brewed 3 last weekend...and I got 55% then 70% Then 74.5%
Good thing I brew with the intent of "Good Beer" on the back end and not exact guidelines or the satisfaction of hitting numbers on the front end.

Anbrew said:

Before I get into it, let me say I did RTFM, I just got done reading the efficiency sticky


I use a coleman 5-day 70qt rectangular cooler with a bazooka screen. I'm starting to think I need to construct a CPVC manifold in order to get better effeciencies. I mean...the bazooka screen doesn't go very far into the cooler...at all.


Any tips?

Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whether you use a bazooka screen/manifold or ss braid, the only purpose for those items are to seperate the grain from the wort. It should have nothing to do with efficiency (unless you're not draining completely)

Not to beat a dead horse (add picture) I just posted this in another thread too, I use my LHBS to mill my grain. They just recently adjusted their mill. I went from a constant 75-77%, to 88% on my last batch. It's the only thing I did different.

I also use Bobby_M's Double batch sparge method.

I suggest you adjust the stock settings on your barely crusher until you get a real nice crush with a lot of flour.

I just built my new tun using the same cooler. I have only done one brew on it so far (9-9-9) but my manifold should be fine for batch or fly sparging as I carefully designed it to avoid channeling.



Copper is *&@% expensive, my cost to build that manifold was about $90, hot water CPVC would be a lot cheaper if you want to give it a try. The tubing I used is 3/4". Only the long pieces have slots every 1/2". The cross pieces have no slots since the tees are nearly against the end of the cooler.

Have you calculated your mash efficiency (see link in my sig). If you aren't getting complete conversion for some reason all the sparging in the world won't get you where you want to be.

I have the same cooler, use a CPVC manifold with 1/16" holes drilled in it, and it works great.

I also struggled with efficiency, and finally gave up, then I got 84% eff.
I really attribute it to Bobby's batch sparging method, and just getting used to my process.

Hopefully it will be an easy fix for you.

I've been getting pretty bad efficiency myself, usually around 65% percent or so. The only time I got up above 70% recently was when I double-crushed. If I could just figure out how to adjust my Crankandstein...

I'm going to try Bobby's double batch sparge method this weekend and see what kind of efficiency I get. I'm also going to do the iodine test to eliminate as many variables as I can. I may also adjust for a slightly finer crush on my barley crusher.

Previously, my batch sparge method was to:
Mash as usual at 152F (with enough water to collect half my pre-boil volume: 6 gallons)
Collect half of my preboil volume
Empty enough 170F sparge water to collect the other half of my pre-boil volume (6 gallons)

This is the batch-sparge method I used:
dennybrew

Sherpa FE said:

I have the same cooler, use a CPVC manifold with 1/16" holes drilled in it, and it works great.

I also struggled with efficiency, and finally gave up, then I got 84% eff.
I really attribute it to Bobby's batch sparging method, and just getting used to my process.

Hopefully it will be an easy fix for you.

Click to expand...

I hope so too. I think I'm going to build a CPVC manifold, as I think the bazooka screen is not allowing the grain to drain properly (it only extends about 1/5 the length of the cooler. I've heard this doesn't matter as much with batch sparging, but is should still make a difference shouldn't it?

Anbrew said:

I'm going to try Bobby's double batch sparge method this weekend and see what kind of efficiency I get. I'm also going to do the iodine test to eliminate as many variables as I can. I may also adjust for a slightly finer crush on my barley crusher.

Previously, my batch sparge method was to:
Mash as usual at 152F (with enough water to collect half my pre-boil volume: 6 gallons)
Collect half of my preboil volume
Empty enough 170F sparge water to collect the other half of my pre-boil volume (6 gallons)

This is the batch-sparge method I used:
dennybrew

Click to expand...

I don't want to take credit for the method I use because it's only a slight variation of denny's method. However, there are a few "uh ohs" in your method. First, using a mash thickness based solely on how much runoff you want to get is bad news. What if you're using a smaller grain bill? Will you go off the deep end and run a 3qts/lb thickness? Thin mashes make for low efficiency. Go for 1.25qts/lb like I explain in the primer as one of the factors of my high efficiency.

Second, break the sparge into two discrete infusions/drains.

Third, 170F isn't hot enough to get your sugars soluable (or maximize it I should say). Go at least 180F.

Bazooka screens/stainless braids don't need a large coverage. The only downside you might have is a lot of deadspace. Fill your cooler so that the entire bazooka is submerged, open the drain and let it empty. Now pour out the water that remains and measure the volume. That's your deadspace and potentially it represent sugary wort that will be left in the tun. You can prop up the end of the cooler with a scrap of 2x4 on the side opposite of the drain (and/or integrate a small dip tube inside the bazooka).

Anbrew said:

I'm going to try Bobby's double batch sparge method this weekend and see what kind of efficiency I get. I'm also going to do the iodine test to eliminate as many variables as I can. I may also adjust for a slightly finer crush on my barley crusher.

Click to expand...

I have mine set to 1:00 on both dials which is around 0.036" or so. That was EdWort's suggestion. At the default setting you could double crush, if you do runoff slowly so you don't get a stuck sparge.

Bobby M has pretty much summed it up, but for the sake of post whoring I will go ahead and reiterate what i have done to increase my efficiency

-Crush is everything. A good crush is fine enough to allow most of the starches in your grains to be converted, while staying large enough to not shred the husks.

-Temperature, as bobby M said, 170 is not hot enough for a sparge. as you drain you MLT and transfer from your HLT you will lose some heat. Also you want that water hot enough to dissolve as much sugar as possible.

-Time. Don't rush it. It does not matter if you fly or batch, if you are not giving it enough time to dissolve as much sugar as possible, you are just going to leave it behind when you drain.

-If you batch, STIR and VOURLAUF every time! this is made easier if you have a march pump, but is worth the extra effort even if you do not.

That is all I have for now, I am sure I will think of something later....

Everyone here has given good advice, but for the sake of thoroughness, I'll also share what I have done to increase my efficiency:

1. Make sure your crush is relatively fine without destroying the grain husks.

2. Use pH 5.2 buffer to treat your water, unless it is pretty soft and you are confident of your mash pH. You can always use strips to check it.

3. Dough in slowly and thoroughly; add a bit of water and a bit of grain, stir, repeat. This is such a simple step, but I swear by it. You ensure no lumps of grain, and your mash will be a consistent temperature throughout.

4. Mash for a long time or check for complete conversion. I always go away and do something else for 90 minutes.

5. Whether you batch sparge or fly sparge, pull off the correct amount of wort (at the end of your mash) that will raise the mash temperature to about 170-180 when boiled and re-added. You might call this a "thin decoction". This is my favorite way for mash-out. Get those sugars in suspension!

6. Make sure your sparge water is hot enough. It's pretty easy when you are batch sparging. When you are fly sparging and using a spinning sparge arm, you might need to use boiling water because it will cool a lot by the time it hits the grain bed.

Good luck and keep us posted.