What is the "green beer" taste?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

psychedelic_brew

Active Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
38
Reaction score
1
Location
St. Louis
I ask because I cracked open a bottle from my first batch that has been in bottles for 2 weeks. I know it was too early, but that's why I did it. I want to crack one open every week or so from here on out to see how my beer matures.

First off, it's a honey brown ale. It poured beautifully, nice color and head and everything, even smelled good. I got excited and took a big drink. Holy crap, like sucking on a lemon! I've NEVER dumped a beer until this one. It was just awful. So...is that what you guys mean when you say the beer is "green"? Is a lemon/sour flavor typical of "green beer" or do different styles have a different tastes when they're still green?

Part of me is wondering if the flavor my beer gave off is normal for unconditioned beer or if it might be a sanitation issue.. I know, relax, don't worry...I've read the book. ;)

edit: I just found all the threads asking the same question..my bad.
 
I taste a lot of yeast and other rough things in my green beer. but NOT like you described! blegh. i would wait another week (or more, like 3 wks) and try one. good luck
 
I'm not ruling out infection, but after skimming the other "green beer" threads I think that I have nothing to worry about. I was extremely careful when it came to sanitation, so I really doubt it's infection. From what I've read, it's pretty hard to screw up a beer.
 
Did you disturb the yeast when you poured the bottle? If I drink really yeasty beer (like I am right now) I get a really tart taste. Bordering on sour, Belgian style. But definately not worthy of pouring down the drain. Maybe check your water profile? How old were the ingredients? How long was it in the fermenter?
 
Did you disturb the yeast when you poured the bottle? If I drink really yeasty beer (like I am right now) I get a really tart taste. Bordering on sour, Belgian style. But definately not worthy of pouring down the drain. Maybe check your water profile? How old were the ingredients? How long was it in the fermenter?

I don't think I disturbed the yeast. Pretty smooth bottling, but I'm sure it got knocked around a little bit as I lifted it to the kitchen table.

I used distilled water. The ingredients should have been fine. All extract, and I brewed within 10 days of getting the kit.

I had it in primary for a SHORT amount of time, about 12 days, but I had no choice. I was moving and didn't want to haul my full carboy across the state. The brew kit said to leave it in primary for 6 days, so I figured double that would be fine. Now I'm wishing I could have left it for a month or so...

any other ideas?
 
12 days is enough. I personally wouldn't use all distilled water for a batch but I doubt thats the culprit. Don't dump anymore. Refer to Revvy if in doubt.
 
I ask because I cracked open a bottle from my first batch that has been in bottles for 2 weeks. I know it was too early, but that's why I did it. I want to crack one open every week or so from here on out to see how my beer matures.

First off, it's a honey brown ale. It poured beautifully, nice color and head and everything, even smelled good. I got excited and took a big drink. Holy crap, like sucking on a lemon! I've NEVER dumped a beer until this one. It was just awful. So...is that what you guys mean when you say the beer is "green"? Is a lemon/sour flavor typical of "green beer" or do different styles have a different tastes when they're still green?

Part of me is wondering if the flavor my beer gave off is normal for unconditioned beer or if it might be a sanitation issue.. I know, relax, don't worry...I've read the book. ;)

edit: I just found all the threads asking the same question..my bad.


how much hops did u use total?
 
You say all extract, was there any steeping of specialty grains? A squeezed grain bag releases tannins with an astringency that causes the dry and puckery feeling in the mouth. Could this have happened?
 
From what I've read, it's pretty hard to screw up a beer.

Yes, that's true, but also true is that it is very easy to get an infection. Wash all your gear with sanitizer. Just a hunch, but did you use bleach to clean your gear?

Also, see below. You can't use distilled water, you need some minerals. Boiling tap water will burn off impurities. Unless you have really strange water, most tap water is generally okay until you get really advanced and want to fine tune your brew with the correct ph, etc. However, if you don't do a full boil and have to add fill water to get up to 5 gallons, add bottled or spring water. Tap water will have cholorine and that will impact your beer if you top off with it. Store that one for now, just in case, and better luck with the next one.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Water
 
Sour is bad and probably will get worse.

Green beer tastes "worty," the hops taste "raw." By the time it has good carbonation it usually gone. I think some of it comes from the sweetness form unfinished priming sugar.
 
Yes, that's true, but also true is that it is very easy to get an infection. Wash all your gear with sanitizer. Just a hunch, but did you use bleach to clean your gear?

Also, see below. You can't use distilled water, you need some minerals. Boiling tap water will burn off impurities. Unless you have really strange water, most tap water is generally okay until you get really advanced and want to fine tune your brew with the correct ph, etc. However, if you don't do a full boil and have to add fill water to get up to 5 gallons, add bottled or spring water. Tap water will have cholorine and that will impact your beer if you top off with it. Store that one for now, just in case, and better luck with the next one.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Water

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard that using distalled water is ok when your brewing with extract because you are preserving the water profile that it was mashed with.
 
Yes, that's true, but also true is that it is very easy to get an infection

I don't know what planet you live on, but most of us will beg to differ.It really is NOT that easy to get an infection.

Your beer is hardier than most new brewers give it credit.

90% of the time someone thinks their beer is infected, it is NOT. It is usually simply green beer or new brewer nerves. It is much more likely that someone like ME is going to get an infection, than a new brewer brewing their first couple batches in brand new equipment, using basic sanitization.

If you read this you will see that you can practically bleed out into your fermenter, and it still manages to turn out great...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

I caution all new folks on here about jumping on the infection bandwagon, especially to other new brewers. You may THINK that the mere looking at you beer the wrong way will make it go bad, but that is hardly the case.

Most of the so called infections, are false alarms. In fact I can count on one hand in the last three years the amount of ACTUAL unintentional infections we have actually seen on here.

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/The_quotIquot_wordand_other_brewing_words_Im_tired_ofa_Rant/ please read this before you continue to so unnecessary panic on the forums.

psychedelic_brew, the mere fact that you acknowleged that you drank your beer young, really does lend creedence to the fact that there is nothing wrong with your beer, that time won't take care of....

Come back in another three weeks, THEN if your beer doesn't taste good, we'll figure out what's wrong...but right now, I still vote young.

You haven't even told us what TYPE of beer, nor the OG of the beer, so anyone trying to diagnose it with no info, is a fool. A good hearted fool, but a fool nonetheless.

You can't play beer doctor, unless you no the beer's and the brewer's story.

The only thing we know is that you tasted it at two weeks....

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

And even carbonation doesn't mean that they will not still be green and need more time to condition....

That belgian strong needed another 6 months before it even became drinkable....

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience." ;)

I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.

Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer:

And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.

Long story short....I betcha that smell/flavor will be long gone when the beer is carbed and conditioned.

Read the stories in here, and you will see that most of the time even the what we think are the worst beers, if given time turn out just fine.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/
 
I know most of the infection posts are false alarms. I just worry that new guys might be the slovenly type who never clean or think mold growing in the bottom of a fermenter is nothing bad.

I read more on water, it looks like distilled water would be okay. I just don't use it.

Strike 2, throw me another.
 
Try this link.

http://www.bjcp.org/study.php#trouble


I had a batch of cream ale that tasted like sour apples and made my stomach hurt. Turns out I pulled it off the yeast too soon at 10 days and it had tons of Acetaldehyde. I still have about 12 bottles that I am keeping to see if they ever turn out ok, and to back up Revvy's point :cross:
 
I know most of the infection posts are false alarms. I just worry that new guys might be the slovenly type who never clean or think mold growing in the bottom of a fermenter is nothing bad.

Strike 2, throw me another.

Actually new brewers tend to be hyper paranoid and tend to over sanitize everything during their first brews...including their body parts......If you are here long enough you see that...there was even a thread this week by a noob wondering if he should wear surgical gloves....

I've been here long enough to know about the mindset of the new brewers, most of them are MORE CONSCIENTIOUS or detail oriented then those of us who have been brewing for a number of years WE ARE THE ONES WHO SOMETIMES CUT CORNERS, NOT THE NOOB.

Mold very rarely grows at the bottom of the fermenter. If it does grow, it grows on the surface of the beer, where it makes contact with the air that may have gotten into the fermenter.

And guess what you do if that happens?

You rack the beer out from under the mold, either to a secondary or to bottles, and you drink the beer.

Mold on the surface actually is NOT uncommon...and it is not indicative of infected beer, or bad sanitization...beer tends to find ways of protecting itself....and surviving.

You need to realize/remember/understand one important fact. Nothing pathogenic can grow in beer, so even an infection will not hurt us. If you have that understanding, then you can stop worrying and start brewing.

Daily many of us have to answer threads about that very topic, people thinking that if they make a mistake that their beer can kill people, make people extremely ill, or cause yeast infection and other illness.

Nothing pathogenic can live in beer, including botchuism. So the only "poisoning" you can get is liver poising...but we're all in the same boat with that anyway, so you are in good company. :D

I came across this from a pretty well known and award winning homebrewer railing against a fellow brewer (it was on one of those "color coded" brewboards where they are a little less friendly than we are.) I just cut and pasted it and stuck it in a file...here it is.

Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.


It's important to remember that one of the reasons we have beer today (one of the oldest beverages in existence) is because it was made to be drunk in places where drinking the WATER was deadly....By boiling the wort, adding hops (which is an antiseptic), changing the ph, and pitching yeast, you killed of any microorganism that good be harmful.....in fact the third runnings of the brewing process was fermented at an extremely low gravit 1-2% ABV, and it was called "table beer" or "Kid's Beer" this is the stuff that people drank with meals...it was their water replacement, like Iced tea or soda pop...because again the fermentation process insured thatit was safer than the water.

So even a beer that may taste and smell like a$$ is NOT going to be harmful if consumed.

Only to our pride. ;)

Like I said, the most ignorant brewer using the most rudimetnry attempt at sanitzation, is going to tend to do better than the most experienced brewer who has scratch equipment, who sleeps through his brewing process, cutting corners here and there. We are the ones who are going to have bad batches...not the noob posting an "is my beer ruined?" Thread.

I believe, in base ball parlance,

strike_out.jpg
 
Try this link.

http://www.bjcp.org/study.php#trouble


I had a batch of cream ale that tasted like sour apples and made my stomach hurt. Turns out I pulled it off the yeast too soon at 10 days and it had tons of Acetaldehyde. I still have about 12 bottles that I am keeping to see if they ever turn out ok, and to back up Revvy's point :cross:

Sorry, but like I said in an earlier post...if the beer is under 6 weeks in the bottle, than these off flavors charts are about as useful as that third nipple I have growing...or the other two for that matter. :D

Just about every flavor on that list, if the beer is sampled under the green window, more than likely dissapear when the beer is no longer green....That's the point of what I wrote...GREEN BEER CAN OFTEN MIMIC THOSE VERY OFF FLAVORS IN THOSE LISTS...

The difference is, that if it dissapears after 6-8 weeks in the bottle,then it really WASN'T and off flavor, it was just green....

If the OP tastes those things at 8 weeks in the bottle, THEN we will explore that chart...BUT since he opened his beer, at two weeks...we can't prove that his beer is NOT simply green.


One thing to remeber gang, if you brew from fear, you won't make great beer.

I f you come in with the attitude that you can easily mess up and come up with dangerous poison, you won't be brewing to the best of your abilities.

You may have noticed that we tell you new brewers to RDWHAHB...."Relax" is the biggest part of the message. It really is hard to f-this stuff up.

Remember, this isn't brain surgery. This is a HOBBY...it's supposed to be fun, NOT something that you are supposed to stress out on.
 
Oh by the way Revvy, I have had those "bad sour apple" beers bottled for 6 weeks now....still crappy, but im gonna keep on waitin 3+ months. If they ever turn out good I'll be sure to let you know!:mug:
 
Back
Top