Man, I love Apfelwein

mrfocus said:

You know what guys, I think I may have found out why the hangovers are so wicked: Acetaldehyde!

I was just reading this page on wikipedia. I followed the link it cited as reference, which led me to this story. A quote:


Is it possible that by adding too much oxygen into the must, by which the yeast doesn't use enough during it's reproduction, the leftover is kept in the must until the yeast goes onto this second phase and starts re transforming our precious alcohol into nasty Acetaldehyde? Any bio/chemists around here want to give their opinion?

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Your kinda correct, but thinking about the wrong creature. This is the right process, but it's happening in us! Under normal metabolism, ethanol is broken down in the liver by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase to acetaldehyde, which is then converted by the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase to the harmless acetic acid.

Acetaldehyde is nasty, nasty stuff and a major cause of severe hangoversthat can last 30 minutes up to several hours. Symptoms include flushing of the skin, accelerated heart rate, shortness of breath, nausea, and vomiting.

BTW: when someone is having a problem quitting drinking, and they need negative behavioral reenforcements, we write for disulfiram (antabuse). Antabuse blocks acetaldehyde dehydrogenase and prevents it from converting acetaldehyde into acetic acid. As a result, when someone drinks the levels of acetaldehyde jumps and the person gets really, really sick. Usually they can't even finish 1 beer.

For those of you that bottle your Apfelwine, have you found the normal beer priming practice to be sufficient? (2 cups water to 3/4 corn sugar boiled for 5 minutes for a 5 gallon batch)

Too much/too little carbonation?


-ssb

I used the typical beer amount and it carbed exactly like beer, which I liked. I think traditional cider has less carbing, but it's really up to you.

blacklab said:

I used the typical beer amount and it carbed exactly like beer, which I liked. I think traditional cider has less carbing, but it's really up to you.

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But you shouldn't use wine bottles if you are carbing it. Use beer or Champagne bottles. Wine bottles can't take the pressure I've been told.

(I think it was Yooper who posted aboutthat on another thread.)

+1, plus the corks would explode out of the wine bottles. I bottled in 22ers.

I have a 2.5 gallon batch going. I think I'm going to carb it. How do most of you finish it, carbed or un-carbed??

This certainly seems like a dumb question, and I assume my guess is right but... If you naturally bottle carb with priming, you will have sediment, correct? Because it is just continuing the fermentation process, it has to create sediment, although I'm sure it is only a small amount.

WOW! Does this thread currently hold the forum record?? 273 pages and 2728 posts (including this one!)

I think I know what I am going to do with my empty primaries.

-Will

blacklab said:

+1, plus the corks would explode out of the wine bottles. I bottled in 22ers.

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Just out of curiousity, which do you prefer Still or Carbed Apfelwein?

Actually anyone chime in...

My first batch wont be ready for awhile...but I was thinking carbing half of the 5 gallons...

I'm thinking the same way, bottle half un-carbed and force carbing the rest in a corney. I'm thinking I will prefer the carbed. For some reason it sounds like a great drink while sitting on the boat in the summer.

I believe the general trend is toward preferring carbed. I have to say I agree with the general trend. I carbed my last batch with about 5 oz priming sugar for a little less than 5 gallons of apfelwein. It's not bad, but I'd like it even more fizzy. Someone here suggested 8oz priming sugar for 5 gallons for a more champagne-like carb level. That seemed like a bit much, so I went ahead with 7.5 oz for my most recent. It's still carbing now, but I have high hopes for it. As far as too much carbing, the only thing you have to worry about is bottle bombs. Gushers aren't an issue because there's next to no head retention in apfelwein.

I like it better carbonated, and I used 8.5 oz. of dextrose in a five gallon batch to produce four volumes of CO2 and approximating champagne. That is excellent, as it really came out like champagne. The CO2 also adds some very pleasant complexity to the nose.

I've also just carbed a keg like I would a beer. It is good, but it is not as crisp or (obviously) effervescent. In other words, it just isn't as much fun. With such a thin body, it also goes flat fairly quickly. That thin body needs a little something to beef or fluff it up in your mouth.

Honestly, it was pretty tasty straight out of the fermenter, but I strongly prefer the carbonated stuff.


TL

Tusch said:

This certainly seems like a dumb question, and I assume my guess is right but... If you naturally bottle carb with priming, you will have sediment, correct? Because it is just continuing the fermentation process, it has to create sediment, although I'm sure it is only a small amount.

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There's very little sediment-but yes, there is some there. There has to be.

That being said, you can pour it all out of the bottle and not really get any in your glass. Much less goop in the bottle than beer.

blacklab said:

There's very little sediment-but yes, there is some there. There has to be.

That being said, you can pour it all out of the bottle and not really get any in your glass. Much less goop in the bottle than beer.

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It also helps if you use the wine yeasts. They pack down very hard at the bottom. I don't see yeast in a pour until right near the end of a bottle. I do not know how the beer yeasts behave, though I expect those that ferment with hefeweizen yeast find more in their glasses.


TL

TexLaw said:

I like it better carbonated, and I used 8.5 oz. of dextrose in a five gallon batch to produce four volumes of CO2 and approximating champagne. That is excellent, as it really came out like champagne. The CO2 also adds some very pleasant complexity to the nose.

I've also just carbed a keg like I would a beer. It is good, but it is not as crisp or (obviously) effervescent. In other words, it just isn't as much fun. With such a thin body, it also goes flat fairly quickly. That thin body needs a little something to beef or fluff it up in your mouth.

Honestly, it was pretty tasty straight out of the fermenter, but I strongly prefer the carbonated stuff.


TL

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When you kegged and carbed, you didn't use priming sugar then, correct? Would you say it's worth the extra work to prime with sugar and bottle instead of kegging and carbing with gas only?

Ok, my first 5 Gallons are in the better bottle and starting to bubble..

Now the wait..

Guinness71 said:

Ok, my first 5 Gallons are in the better bottle and starting to bubble..

Now the wait..

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forget about it for awhile, mine took six weeks in my 65 basement, and I've heard
two months...just don't mess with it until it clears up.

I know the typical process is to prime with sugar before bottling, but what if I bottled the Apfelwein uncarbed in normal wine bottles, and decided to bottle and carbonate in beer bottles later? What I'm asking is if I siphoned a certain of Apfelwein a bottling bucket and added sugar after being stored in wine bottles for a time, would it carbonate?

Might be a dumb question, but it's just a thought.....

Well I imagine if you siphon out of the carboy and than bottle. If you store it in the wine bottles too long, your yeast will probably die, so along with adding sugar, you would probably need to add a bit more yeast as well.

blacklab said:

forget about it for awhile, mine took six weeks in my 65 basement, and I've heard
two months...just don't mess with it until it clears up.

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Thanks for the tip - I'll tuck it away out of sight so it doesnt tempt me!

Whoa that's good...

I hadda try it... Mine will be 1 month on Sunday, but I couldn't wait, I had to try it. (Actually I wanted to see if I could pull off a couple of bottles that were drinkable when the GF arrives in a couple hours.)

And it is surprisingly smooth and tasty...though still cloudy. It is pretty dry in a pleasing way.

I just "clocked it" at 7.2% abv....I swirled it a bit after I pulled of 2 fifths of it (In old rum bottles.) to kick up the yeast and see if it will go further. I really don't plan on pulling anymore off of it for awhile, (Yeah, right...It's pretty damn good) at least til it clears.

So how low potentially does it go when fermentation actually finishes? It started at 1.065, and it's down to 1.010. I think I did the math right...but my brain's foggy...it's
1.065-1.010X131= 7.2%, right???


I had the dregs from my wine theif, and another pint to "clear the air/ sanitizer" out autosiphon, and I must say I feel pleasantly numb...
Methinks PSEUDOSWMBO's panties are gonna slide right off after a couple glasses of this...:rockin:

Thanks Ed!!!

Read this a long time ago...

I went to a farmers market to buy some blue berries when I saw a gallon of just crushed apple juice for 5 bucks. Bought a gallon and shook a pound of sugar into it. Then I slapped an airlock on it and shared some D-47 from my mead batch.

Clocked at above 1.080

I drained a bit out of it cause I'm constantly reading about blow off, will add it back as the lvls go down. Or just cut myself 3 feet of tubing and make myself a blow off valve. It's chilling in my bath tub just in case

Cheers.

I kegged mine back in December and it was not too shabby then after only a month. I took it off of the tap for some brew. I'm thinking I might just wait until May and hook it back up to the tap and see. It'll be hard, but thankfully there're 5 kegs of Brew in a Queue waiting.

My bro loved it in January and is begging me to bottle some up for him. He'll just have to wait or make his own.

Drinkin third bottle right now, good stuff. Was a little worried since I started this on December 1. Took 7 weeks to stop bubbling. Primed and bottled on Jan 27. Nice carbonation. I belieive this does get better with age. Suggestion, as soon as you rack this stuff, start another batch right away. This isn't going to last too long. Ed Wort ROCKS!

Revvy said:

So how low potentially does it go when fermentation actually finishes? It started at 1.065, and it's down to 1.010. I think I did the math right...but my brain's foggy...it's
1.065-1.010X131= 7.2%, right???

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It usually hits around 0.998 to 1.000 in the end.... but it takes a while to get down the last couple points. You know it's done when it clears.

With Apfelvien, expecially if I carb it naturally in the bottle, will I need to worry about a bitter layer of yeast at the bottom of every bottle like I read about with beer brewing?

shafferpilot said:

It usually hits around 0.998 to 1.000 in the end.... but it takes a while to get down the last couple points. You know it's done when it clears.

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Thanks for the info!!!

nyer said:

When you kegged and carbed, you didn't use priming sugar then, correct? Would you say it's worth the extra work to prime with sugar and bottle instead of kegging and carbing with gas only?

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For the keg I described, I just force carbonated. I do think it is worth having a batch in bottles for portability, if no other reason. If I'm heading to a party, I can just grab a bottle and go. It also adds to the fun factor when you pop one open. I bottled in 1 liter, swing-top bottles, so there was very little trouble.

I have primed a corny with dextrose, also. I haven't tapped it, though, so I do not know how it has come out. I just primed it with the normal 5 oz., but I might bump it up with the CO2 tank when we get to it.


TL

TexLaw said:

I like it better carbonated, and I used 8.5 oz. of dextrose in a five gallon batch to produce four volumes of CO2 and approximating champagne. That is excellent, as it really came out like champagne. The CO2 also adds some very pleasant complexity to the nose.

I've also just carbed a keg like I would a beer. It is good, but it is not as crisp or (obviously) effervescent. In other words, it just isn't as much fun. With such a thin body, it also goes flat fairly quickly. That thin body needs a little something to beef or fluff it up in your mouth.

Honestly, it was pretty tasty straight out of the fermenter, but I strongly prefer the carbonated stuff.


TL

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I think is a good idea, my first batch with Lavin 0116 was crab'd with 4.5oz per norm. It was good but I think it would have been great with more of champagne like carbonation. In fact while drinking it I would say wow this would better if it had a champagne like effervescence.

TexLaw said:

I like it better carbonated, and I used 8.5 oz. of dextrose in a five gallon batch to produce four volumes of CO2 and approximating champagne. That is excellent, as it really came out like champagne. The CO2 also adds some very pleasant complexity to the nose.

I've also just carbed a keg like I would a beer. It is good, but it is not as crisp or (obviously) effervescent. In other words, it just isn't as much fun. With such a thin body, it also goes flat fairly quickly. That thin body needs a little something to beef or fluff it up in your mouth.

Honestly, it was pretty tasty straight out of the fermenter, but I strongly prefer the carbonated stuff.


TL

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TL just wondering when you used the 8.5 oz of dextros what type of bottles did you use? I have a batch that should be ready to bottle in the next week. I will be using 16 oz grlosch bottles. Will these stand up to the pressure?

sflcowboy78 said:

TL just wondering when you used the 8.5 oz of dextros what type of bottles did you use? I have a batch that should be ready to bottle in the next week. I will be using 16 oz grlosch bottles. Will these stand up to the pressure?

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I used 1 L, swing-top bottles. I would expect the Grolsch bottles would work fine. In fact, I took some comfort in the swing top holding where a crown cap may not. Four volumes is not an outrageous about of carbonation, though, and is what you might expect in a properly carbonated hefeweizen.

Also, just FYI, I did crank up the carbonation on that one keg a week or so before New Year's Eve and served it with four volumes of carbonation off of a separate regulator. It rocked, just like the bottled batch (although a little younger).


TL

TexLaw said:

Also, just FYI, I did crank up the carbonation on that one keg a week or so before New Year's Eve and served it with four volumes of carbonation off of a separate regulator. It rocked, just like the bottled batch (although a little younger).

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What PSI did you use to get 4 volumes?

25 PSI @ roughly 36F. It poured like a son of a gun, but it was fun. Since the head goes doen immediately, it was no hassle. It's not something I would do all the time, but it was an awful lot of fun for New Year's Eve.


TL

A bit , but Apfelwein on tap is a very dangerous thing! I learned this last weekend when two of my BMC driking buddies passed out after 4 and 5 pints of Apfelwein, respectively.

No doubt about that, man. No doubt at all!


TL

My one gallon batch has pretty much stopped bubbling after about 1 1/2 weeks. I used identical ingredients to the original recipe, but I used the Cote Des Blancs yeast plus some nutrient. Any idea on why Id see such a reduction in visible fermentation?

darn it. I shouldn't have shared this stuff with anyone I know. My brother took some to his future (?!?) mother in-law and now she wants some every time he goes! They took 3 bottles of my 8 (or 9) month apfelwein. I've given a few away to be nice and it seems like this stuff is accepted at more places than my credit card I havent had a batch started for a few months! I need to bottle the 3 or 4 gallons i've had aging, get my scotch ale going and get this stuff in the works!

david_the_greek said:

darn it... I havent had a batch started for a few months! I need to bottle the 3 or 4 gallons i've had aging, get my scotch ale going and get this stuff in the works!

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The Instructions should include in the ingredient list at least 1 if not 2 extra glass carboys so as to not interrupt the flow of beer and wine from your kitchen.
I started my first batch on Feb 8th...here we are 10 days later and I have a 3 gallon carboy for the next batch, 8#'s of Corn Sugar, something approaching a semi tanker load of apple juice, I purchased a 5 gallon carboy to replace the one that has apparently become designated to that golden nectar of the gods....and I haven't even tried it yet.
I think I've crossed that line...between Hobby and mental illness!

TexLaw said:

I used 1 L, swing-top bottles. I would expect the Grolsch bottles would work fine. In fact, I took some comfort in the swing top holding where a crown cap may not. Four volumes is not an outrageous about of carbonation, though, and is what you might expect in a properly carbonated hefeweizen.

Also, just FYI, I did crank up the carbonation on that one keg a week or so before New Year's Eve and served it with four volumes of carbonation off of a separate regulator. It rocked, just like the bottled batch (although a little younger).


TL

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Thanks for the reply Tl. I will be bottling my batch this coming weekend i was going to bottle on sunday but it wasn't clear enough yet. i will draw another sample on friday to see.

Just curious if I should bottle now....bubbles every 180 sec