Still fermenting?

So my "Pilgrim Pumpkin Ale" (mashed w/ roasted pumpkin meat & did not add spices), is still fermenting after 13 days in the primary.

The OG was 1075

I took a reading (and a taste ) last night and it was at 1020. So it still has a little bit to go.

I have never had a beer ferment out this long. That said, I have just started actually taking readings and doing things right, etc.

So, how long does fermentation with this level of attenuation usually take?

And there is a LOT of trub (damn pumpkin meat!) and I really want to get it off. Will the long ferment impact the final flavor because it's been sitting on all that trub? Last night it tasted "green", a little yeasty. Needed some clearing.

I am planning on throwing some gelatin in when it goes to secondary an cold crashing it.

jeremyx said:

I have never had a beer ferment out this long. That said, I have just started actually taking readings and doing things right, etc.

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More than likely if you weren't taking hydro readings, you only thought fermentation was done, when it was probably moving at exactly the same pace as it is now. And you moved the beer too soon. Especially if you went by airlock bubbling as a sign or just used the silly 1-2-3 method.

You will find that fermentations take exactly as long as they need to....

There really is no need to worry if the fermentation is happening fast or slow, (though often fast fermentations are s sign of too high fermentation temps, but isn't always the case.) or whether an airlock bubbles or not....all that matters is that you have fermentation.

One thing to remember is that you are not in charge, the yeast are, they've been doing this for 45 million years and they are the experts, and they have their own timeframe, often way different than ours.

ANother thing to realize is that [i[no two fermentations are exactly the same.[/i] so despite the fact that you had a blowoff this time, there's no gaurentee that if you made the identical batch next time that you would again.

When we are dealing with living creatures, there is a wild card factor in play..Just like with other animals, including humans...No two behave the same.

You can split a batch in half put them in 2 identical carboys, and pitch equal amounts of yeast from the same starter...and have them act completely differently...for some reason on a subatomic level...think about it...yeasties are small...1 degree difference in temp to us, could be a 50 degree difference to them...one fermenter can be a couple degrees warmer because it's closer to a vent all the way across the room and the yeasties take off...

Someone, Grinder I think posted a pic once of 2 carboys touching each other, and one one of the carboys the krausen had formed only on the side that touched the other carboy...probably reacting to the heat of the first fermentation....but it was like symbiotic or something...

With living micro-organisms there is always a wildcard factor in play...and yet the yeast rarely lets us down. So it is best just to rdwhahb and trust that they know to what they are doing.

Using your hydromteter reading is really the only way to determine when something is finished. I usually recommend new brewers check on the 10th and 12th day or 12th and 14th day, and if the grav hasn't changed and is in a couple points of the FG listed in your recipe then it is done...If it is significantly higher than it should be Like if it is at 1.030 both days, you may have a possibly stalled fermentation, and then you need to d somethign to correct it, like swirl or warm the fermenter up slightly, and in the worst case scenario, re-pitch more yeast.

But usually after about 14 days fermentation is pretty close if not totally finished.

Hope this helps.

PS don't forget in your case you added roasted pumpkin which may be why you need more time....I would since it's 13 days give it a gentle swirl to get the yeast working again and maybe wrap a blanket around it to warm it up a bit, and check back in another 3-4 days or so.

Wow, thanks for the info! When the airlock stops ticking I'll give it a day and take a reading. Then I'll take another reading a day or two later

jeremyx said:

Wow, thanks for the info! When the airlock stops ticking I'll give it a day and take a reading. Then I'll take another reading a day or two later

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Ignore your airlock...it's not a gauge, it's a vent, nothing more....in fact many people don't use them...and if you open your bucket or carboy then replace the lid your airlcok may not bubble again...does that mean fermentation has ceased? No it just means that you voided out any excess co2.

Which is exactly what an airlock should be thought of as...a way to release any excess co2 without painting your ceiling with your precious beer. Not a gauge of fermentation.

Good point! Hydro-readings from now on then!

Glad to see Revvy is in here, listen to the master. The key with fermenting beer is patience, there is not a set schedule, I usually error on the side of caution and usually never take hydro readings until I am kegging or bottling because they have been in either the primary or secondary if I was dry hopping for so long that there couldn't be a chance of not being at terminal gravity.

So far it has not failed me but at least 3 weeks in a primary and then dry hop or just 4 weeks in primary if there is no dry hop or other addition such as coffee, fruit, oak etc...

The pumpkin trub will not cause you any grief and the longer you let the beer sit post-ferment, the more the trub will pack down. I've had trub decrease from 2 inches to 1/4 in two weeks. That's six pints of clear beer.

humann_brewing said:

So far it has not failed me but at least 3 weeks in a primary and then dry hop or just 4 weeks in primary if there is no dry hop or other addition such as coffee, fruit, oak etc...

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+1 to this. People think, because I talk about hydrometers over airlocks, that I must take 10,000 readings on a batch of beer...I don't.

I take 2, or at the most 3.....But 99% of the time, since I leave my beer in primary for a month, AND I trust my yeast to know what they're doing, I take two... the first is on yeast pitch day, and the second is 4 weeks later on bottling day. The only exceptions to this are if I am (most rarely) using a secondary to dry hop or add oak)...If that's the case I take one around the 2 week mark to see if I am at or near terminal gravity, before I rack and dry hop.

Or if something doesn't feel right to me....Like if I am using a carboy and don't see a krausen and it's been longer than 72 hours (only happened once in my life, and took off shortly after) to see if there's been any change.

But if you are opting for paitience and trusting, you really can get away with 2 and that's only if you want to know your ABV...

But in the beginning, especially when you don't trust the brewing process, I recommend people use their hydrometer. Get to know it, get comfortable with it.....especially use it if you think something's not kosher AND BEFORE you consider re-pitching or swirling or any kind of "fix-it" procedure...because your hydrometer is your diagnostic tool, and you may find out nothing is wrong....

Thanks for the Kudos as well.

A lot of great info here -- thanks!

I see that a lot of folks here only use a secondary if they are dry hopping or adding adjuncts.

I have been operating under the impression that you always want to get the beer off the trub when it is done fermenting. But I have been questioning that as of late.

What does the time in the secondary really do? I know you can get some clearing out of it. Why do some folks say they need to leave big beers like stouts and barleywines in the secondary for many months?

jeremyx said:

A lot of great info here -- thanks!

I see that a lot of folks here only use a secondary if they are dry hopping or adding adjuncts.

I have been operating under the impression that you always want to get the beer off the trub when it is done fermenting. But I have been questioning that as of late.

What does the time in the secondary really do? I know you can get some clearing out of it. Why do some folks say they need to leave big beers like stouts and barleywines in the secondary for many months?

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We've covered the debunking of the autolysis and yeast fear myth HUGELY on here. It's been done to death. There's not a day that goes by where this hasn't been adressed repeatedly.

Rather than re-invent the wheel, I am just going to encourage you to look at threads in the beginner's forums with titles like "No Secondary" or "When to Secondary" or "autolysis myth" and you will find a ton of info..I have written TONS on that topic on here...and rather re-write what I have already written, I just suggest you do some digging.....you will finds all your questions about that thoroughly answered.

Here is a good thread on the subject:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/autolysis-101230/

jeremyx said:

Here is a good thread on the subject:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/autolysis-101230/

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Actually not, that's one of those inconclusive threads...When I meant to look for threads, look for threads where I have written extensively on the subject....Like I said, look for the threads discusing secondaries vs long primary.....

People have sat their beer on the yeast cake for 6 months and not had any problems. Autolysis is largely a bogeyman for the homebrewer, and if you go back and re-read John Palmer's "terrifying to the new brewer" passage in How to Brew, that every new brewer panics about, you will notice a couple things;

1) He is actually talking about Lagers as being susceptible to autolysis. That is because, when you are making a lager, you are LAGERING or storing your beer for a few months to cold condition. ANd you are making a beer where any perceived flaw stands out since there is virtually no dark malt or even hop presence. If you are attempting to sit a really light beer on a yeast cake for months and months, you would possibly have autolysis occuring, but we're talking MONTHS. So that's why you secondary a lager, you take it off the yeast and store it.

2) John Palmer ends the section in HTB with this caveat, which MOST new brewers seem to miss, probably because they are already in beer is gonna be ruined panic mode.

....As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

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And furthermore he says this.

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

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