I think the one tablet per gallon is for wine. To dechlorinate water for brewing beer, I've always heard one tablet is enough for 20 gallons.
Do campden tablets de-chlorinate water
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kal
Well-Known Member
1 tablet per 20 gallons, not 1 tablet per gallon.
And yes, all your water that gets used for making beer should be removed of any chlorine or chloramines.
1 tablet in 20 gallons of water will get rid of ~2 ppm chlorine or chloramine. No need to use more.
Kal
CaliBrewin
Well-Known Member
perfect, thank you guys.
about to start my variant of Eds Haus Pale.
I am CONVINCED this is the reason my brews have been plagued with a very noticeable plastic-y taste. my tap water (same water ive been using to brew with) tastes heavily of chlorine.
hopefully this is the cure ive been looking for for so long...
about to start my variant of Eds Haus Pale.
I am CONVINCED this is the reason my brews have been plagued with a very noticeable plastic-y taste. my tap water (same water ive been using to brew with) tastes heavily of chlorine.
hopefully this is the cure ive been looking for for so long...
Lgaddy44
Well-Known Member
I consider myself a noob still, having only been brewing for 5 months or so. I've got about 10 batches under my belt, with at least 6 of them being all grains. I have yet to include a campden tablet or any adjustment to the tap water that I've used for my beers. I have no idea what the water profile is for my tap water, but I haven't made a beer yet, that I haven't liked. I've made pilsners, wits, pale ales, and an IPAs, to name a few.
It took a me a while to hit my target OG, but I've finally got my efficiency set at 65% (pretty low, I know), but it works for me. I've been debating about getting some 5.2 and/or campden tablets to see if I can get more efficiency, but at the same time, I think this might just be a psychological victory I need to win, just to prove my worth as a beginning brewer.
Maybe I don't have the pallet to identify the subtleties of brewing, or maybe I can continue living in my blissful ignorance. I'd prefer to keep brewing a fun and relaxing hobby, instead of creating a laboratory environment of number crunching calculations and experimenting. I've already got a stressful occupation, I'm not looking for another.
Are the benefits of water profiles and adjustments worth my time, or will I even notice the extra effort in my beers?
It took a me a while to hit my target OG, but I've finally got my efficiency set at 65% (pretty low, I know), but it works for me. I've been debating about getting some 5.2 and/or campden tablets to see if I can get more efficiency, but at the same time, I think this might just be a psychological victory I need to win, just to prove my worth as a beginning brewer.
Maybe I don't have the pallet to identify the subtleties of brewing, or maybe I can continue living in my blissful ignorance. I'd prefer to keep brewing a fun and relaxing hobby, instead of creating a laboratory environment of number crunching calculations and experimenting. I've already got a stressful occupation, I'm not looking for another.
Are the benefits of water profiles and adjustments worth my time, or will I even notice the extra effort in my beers?
kal
Well-Known Member
That depends on the beers you brew and the composition of the water you're using now.
Once all that is known, whether it's worth your time and if you'll notice a difference is not something others can answer for you.
Campden tablets will not affect your efficiency. It's a taste thing.
Kal
Judge
Well-Known Member
Okay, this may be heresy and y'all may run me out of town, but...I dechlorinate and dechloramine my brewing water with aquarium water conditioner drops...never had a problem.
devils4ever
Well-Known Member
I use a 1/4 tablet for my brews. This is for my mash and sparge water which is usually about 8 gallons. Propane is too expensive for me to boil for an hour or more BEFORE starting.
TastySalmon
Well-Known Member
Boiling water will also remove chlorine. Since it's a gas, just a little disturbance in the water will remove it.
StMarcos
Well-Known Member
One tablet is supposed to be 0.44g, not sure how much is filler/binder. I'm guessing not much. I assume it's all kmet when I weigh it.
The only issue I have with charcoal filters is the need to test the effluent for chloramines. I bought a cheaper kit awhile ago and it's quite useless - does not detect the levels of chloramines that my water company says are in the water. I can taste it in the water however.
The only issue I have with charcoal filters is the need to test the effluent for chloramines. I bought a cheaper kit awhile ago and it's quite useless - does not detect the levels of chloramines that my water company says are in the water. I can taste it in the water however.
devils4ever
Well-Known Member
Do you know what's in it? Maybe, it's the same as Campden tablets?
Judge
Well-Known Member
The label says sodium thiosulfate and EDTA terrasodium salt. Six drops per gallon to break the chloramine bond and remove chlorine. Costs about $3.00 per bottle at PetSmart and lasts 25 or so batches.
Again, it may not be "best practice", but it has always worked for me (and the fish).
devils4ever
Well-Known Member
I'm no chemist, but I would guess it's safe since fish are very sensitive to water conditions. I had a marine tank years ago and if the water isn't right, they start to die.
Judge
Well-Known Member
Chemistry is the weakest part of my brewing skillset. The bottle is labeled "Tap Water Conditioner". It says safe for fresh water and
salt water. I have a tank full of African Chiclids (Bi-Color 500s) that are now in their 8th generation using this water treatment. I have to assume it is okay for beer too.
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Keep in mind that most chemicals sold for the aquarium industry are usually not labeled for use on food fish or fish that may enter the food chain. I personally wouldn't use them for anything I'm going to consume.
Judge
Well-Known Member
Good point, but at what concentration is it harmful? I don't know what the concentration is when used at the recommended dosage. The MSDS for sodium thiosulfate seems to indicate it is less toxic than chlorine. However I could find nothing that either approves or prohibits consumption by humans. Perhaps we have a chemist or physician on the forum who could weigh in.
mvolz
Active Member
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG...*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablets
This might shed a little light on the subject.
This might shed a little light on the subject.
Rip
Well-Known Member
.
Please don't use Fish Tank DeChlor products in your Beer!
Sodium thiosulfate is maybe a mostly harmless chemical in itself (MDMS isn't too bad) BUT... and this is the big one: it's frequently manufactured from industrial leftovers produced from the manufacture of Sulfur based Dye (did I mention: Industrial waste???).
Have you asked your fish how they feel? :rockin:
Mine would never answer my questions, I think they are a little slow now. Could it be the DeChlor? I don't want to find out!
Campden tablets are cheap: can be found for ~10$ per pound.
To Treat drinking water for Chlorine or Chloramine:
Use 1/4 Campden tablet per 5gallons H20.
That is: 1 tablet treats 20 gallons
You'll find some posts that indicate other quantities... trust me, it's 1/4 tablet per 5 gal. There was much confusion over this in the recent past due to some bad source material (can't recall the source). Using campden tabs in Wine is a different story btw.
- M
p.s. No fish were harmed in the making of this public service announcement. Have you called your mom lately?
Please don't use Fish Tank DeChlor products in your Beer!
Sodium thiosulfate is maybe a mostly harmless chemical in itself (MDMS isn't too bad) BUT... and this is the big one: it's frequently manufactured from industrial leftovers produced from the manufacture of Sulfur based Dye (did I mention: Industrial waste???).
Have you asked your fish how they feel? :rockin:
Mine would never answer my questions, I think they are a little slow now. Could it be the DeChlor? I don't want to find out!
Campden tablets are cheap: can be found for ~10$ per pound.
To Treat drinking water for Chlorine or Chloramine:
Use 1/4 Campden tablet per 5gallons H20.
That is: 1 tablet treats 20 gallons
You'll find some posts that indicate other quantities... trust me, it's 1/4 tablet per 5 gal. There was much confusion over this in the recent past due to some bad source material (can't recall the source). Using campden tabs in Wine is a different story btw.
- M
p.s. No fish were harmed in the making of this public service announcement. Have you called your mom lately?
Rip said:
I've never had a problem with fish and aquarium dechlor products, and most saltwater fish are a helluva lot more susceptible to chemicals than people are.
Nitrates greater than 10 ppm stresses them out, whereas I can drink water with 10 ppm of nitrates my whole life and never have a problem.
The different between poison and medicine is in the dosage. I'm not 100% sure what aquarium dechlor is made out of, but I know it gives off a sulfur smell when used, similar to campden.
I've thought about using it, but ended up just buying k-meta
Rip
Well-Known Member
Sorry if I came off like firemarshall bill there.
You might have a valid point... only a few drops are used. I noticed you went to the meta anyhow tho. Yeah me too.
"Try my IIPA, It has a few drops of industrial byproduct in it... nothing to worry about."
Mike
You might have a valid point... only a few drops are used. I noticed you went to the meta anyhow tho. Yeah me too.
"Try my IIPA, It has a few drops of industrial byproduct in it... nothing to worry about."
Mike
Rip said:Sorry if I came off like firemarshall bill there.
You might have a valid point... only a few drops are used. I noticed you went to the meta anyhow tho. Yeah me too.
"Try my IIPA, It has a few drops of industrial byproduct in it... nothing to worry about."
Mike
The k-meta is cheaper than the aquarium dechlor. Id probably use it in a pinch, if I had to, but it's cheaper to use the campden.
Judge
Well-Known Member
A little chemistry help here please...
The aquarium dechlorinator I use, Sodium thiosulfate, is Na2S2O3.
Campden tablets are sodium metabisulfate which is Na2S2O5.
How much difference do two oxygen atoms make?
The link provided by mvolz says the two are "closely related compounds...in terms of usage".
The aquarium dechlorinator I use, Sodium thiosulfate, is Na2S2O3.
Campden tablets are sodium metabisulfate which is Na2S2O5.
How much difference do two oxygen atoms make?
The link provided by mvolz says the two are "closely related compounds...in terms of usage".
kal
Well-Known Member
I have no idea about the example cited here, but it's important to remember that subtle differences can take something from harmless to poisonous.
For example, Carbon Dioxide is CO2 and Carbon Monoxide with one less oyxgen atom is CO. CO is harmful while CO2 isn't. The only difference is one oxygen molecule.
Kal
Judge
Well-Known Member
Another thing to keep in my mind is that many of the aquarium conditioners also contain oils (I think aloe vera) to coat and aid the fish. Not sure what affect this would have on the beer - possibly hurt head retention. If you have used it and not seen a problem then must be too small an amount to cause trouble.
Judge
Well-Known Member
Yes, some water conditioner products do contain "slime coat" substances but not the one I use.
I haven't grown a third eye or started pissing blood and the beer has always been fine, but the folks sounding the alarm have gotten me curious.
I also wonder what the big-name breweries use to dechlorinate their water.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
It's not the answer you want, but there so cheap just buy the homebrew shop ones.
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CO2 isn't harmful? Have you tried breathing that instead of O2?
Another example is O2 and ozone (O3)....
agreed.
kal
Well-Known Member
Good point.CO2 isn't harmful? Have you tried breathing that instead of O2?
Semantics, but from what I understand, C02 isn't actually harmful to us (we breath it out all the time and consequently also breath in a bunch too)... If you don't get enough O2, then harmful to us. (CO on the other hard is actually harmful to breath even if we get enough O2).
Kal
Sithdad
Well-Known Member
Good point.
Semantics, but from what I understand, C02 isn't actually harmful to us (we breath it out all the time and consequently also breath in a bunch too)... If you don't get enough O2, then harmful to us. (CO on the other hard is actually harmful to breath even if we get enough O2).
Kal
Actually, receptors in our blood vessels monitor the CO2 levels and report back to the brain. It's the blood CO2 levels that drive our need to breath.
If I remember high school chemistry correctly O3 (ozone) is unstable because it has a free electron. It wants to be even. So, it looks to pick up an extra oxygen molecule (because it's easier than splitting one off to make itself O2).
How the aquarium tablets work is beyond me.
This is what I've been doing for a while now. You instantly notice a difference. I fill my primary with water to use for brewing and just pitch about a half a camden tablet into the bucket and let it sit for a few minutes before heating it up. The water smells like a pool before you add it and smells much better after, no hint of chlorine to my nose at least. Works great.
Good point.
Semantics, but from what I understand, C02 isn't actually harmful to us (we breath it out all the time and consequently also breath in a bunch too)... If you don't get enough O2, then harmful to us. (CO on the other hard is actually harmful to breath even if we get enough O2).
Kal
The reason Carbon Monoxide is so dangerous is because it has a MUCH higher affinity to hemoglobin in your bloodstream than oxygen. Crash course in biochemistry: Hemoglobin transports oxygen throughout your body, and if it is carrying CO instead of O2, you basically suffocate because of lack of oxygen getting to the cells that require it. CO2 will just lower the pH of your blood as it comes into solution forming bicarbonate ions. When your blood pH drops from too much CO2 (think aerobic exercise), it causes a lowering affinity for hemoglobin to O2 in an attempt to stabilize the pH, thus depositing O2 where it needs to be.
-Steve
Rip
Well-Known Member
So um...what's in that bottle of DeChlor beside the Na2S2O3? That's the only point I wanted to make. All kinds of crap could be contaminating the thiosulfate compound and nobody would care, especially the fish. Well, I guess the dude that grows a 3rd eye and 23 extra testicles might care. lol.
Won't be me.
- M
Won't be me.
- M
SnidelyWhiplash
Well-Known Member
aquarium stuff is not going to be regulated to be food grade, so it can contain anything else as long as they don't think it hurts fish enough to be noticeable. Also I wouldn't want to be directly drinking EDTA all the time. it's shown toxicity in animal tests. a bag of K meta is really cheap.
I bet recommendations to let K meta sit in the water for a day first stem from the use to "sanitize" grape juice before adding yeast. you add a very high level to inhibit anything already in the juice, and let the SO2 degass to reasonable level for yeast before pitching
I bet recommendations to let K meta sit in the water for a day first stem from the use to "sanitize" grape juice before adding yeast. you add a very high level to inhibit anything already in the juice, and let the SO2 degass to reasonable level for yeast before pitching
