Automation, good or bad?>Your experiences

Hi

I am gathering all of my items for a future E-HERMS build. I have most of the needed items already, but am looking for brewers who have gone from a "PID or Controller" setup, to a more automated system, like the BCS-460.

I have searched, and read a ton of info on these specific setups, but have not really found examples of guys/gals that have gone from one, right to the other and have given the pro and cons of each.

What is the biggest difference, that makes you chose one over the other? Is it the GUI on the BCS, or the "hands on" interaction with the other setups?


Thanks in advance.


Tim

Ok......Anyone that currently has a PID setup, and doesn't want to go with a BCS or Brewtroller?

Just trying to hear the pros and cons of actual users.

I use the BCS, it's a great tool. However the more I automate it seems the less fun brewing is. If your into churning out lots of beer as efficiently and repeatable as possible then automation is great. At some point I think I might go back to a simpler system.

PID, I use a Love controller on the fermentation side, don't much care for the small displays and method of changing settings, that's why I'd be a bigger fan of the BCS.

I went from a variety of digital thermometers to the BrewTroller and it's been a nice progression. At first I was just using the BrewTroller for temperature monitoring, then I added an element to my HLT and now I'm in the process of implementing solenoid valves.

I can see where some of the "fun" is lost but I also enjoy tinkering with the computer side of things so that's become somewhat of a hobby as well. Right now I'm trying to record as much data as possible to look back and see how the beer developed and what may have contributed to it's success / failure.

Depending on how comfortable you are with brewing and automation work, I might suggest a stepped approach. This is the approach I have taken, and I have a background in some automation work. I have just finished out a PID controlled system. The system will probably be used for a year or so to tweak the little things in the process, and then I am planning on automating the system a little more in the areas that I think would really help me make more consistent beer and enjoy the day more.

This also means you have time to pay for everything along the way if you cant do huge outlays of cash all at once.

All GREAT responses, with valid points!

I am still torn on what to do. I need an all electric setup, obviously with temp control. Does it need to be automated? Not really, but I guess with the BCS, I can run in manual mode? I want a clean setup, and think I can get that out of each. Does it come down to budget? Kinda. My wife and I just had our first child, so it needs to be something that I can buy piece by piece...It's kind of an "all or nothing" on the BCS, so PID controllers on edging out on that one...


Arrrrrg!

Hunlock said:

All GREAT responses, with valid points!

I am still torn on what to do. I need an all electric setup, obviously with temp control. Does it need to be automated? Not really, but I guess with the BCS, I can run in manual mode? I want a clean setup, and think I can get that out of each. Does it come down to budget? Kinda. My wife and I just had our first child, so it needs to be something that I can buy piece by piece...It's kind of an "all or nothing" on the BCS, so PID controllers on edging out on that one...


Arrrrrg!

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I'm getting ready to build a system as well and have some of the same issues.

I'm definitely getting a BCS though. I think I will automate in the future and having the proper controller and getting to know how it works for a while will make that transition much easier, if I do it.

Plus I can run it from my phone.. how cool is that?!?!

BowWowz said:

I'm getting ready to build a system as well and have some of the same issues.

I'm definitely getting a BCS though. I think I will automate in the future and having the proper controller and getting to know how it works for a while will make that transition much easier, if I do it.

Plus I can run it from my phone.. how cool is that?!?!

Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan.

The remote monitoring capability might sell me on the BCS...With the baby, it might make it a bit easier....

I use a PID to control by single-tier 3-keggle system. I am a techy, but I don't want a PC anywhere near my brewery (which is on an outdoor covered patio): I spend way too much time on PCs during the day.

I don't much like the PID. But it does a fair job of the temp control of my HLT, and power control over my BK, and that is all the automation I want. The BCS is very cool looking, true.

I love brewing. Besides rebuilding my control box, I am very satisfied with my current setup, and at this point I think more would be less.

I don't have either but I do think this is a very interesting discussion. It seems like automation is part of a desire to remove oneself further from the task of brewing. Where does it stop, buying beer!?!?!

No, I don't think that's the reason. I think the main reason is because alot of people on here are natural born tinkerers. We like to create things, work with our hands, and we love the satisfaction of a job well done. For me, I only want so much automation in my brewery. I'll do my creating with the recipes. Others like to tinker, automate, etc.. and to each his own. There's also the coolness factor of course.

I suppose there are some out there that truly did automate their system so that they could be watching tv (or whatever) while there was brewing going on in the garage, but I suspect that's a rarity.

ajwillys said:

I don't have either but I do think this is a very interesting discussion. It seems like automation is part of a desire to remove oneself further from the task of brewing. Where does it stop, buying beer!?!?!

No, I don't think that's the reason. I think the main reason is because alot of people on here are natural born tinkerers. We like to create things, work with our hands, and we love the satisfaction of a job well done. For me, I only want so much automation in my brewery. I'll do my creating with the recipes. Others like to tinker, automate, etc.. and to each his own. There's also the coolness factor of course.

I suppose there are some out there that truly did automate their system so that they could be watching tv (or whatever) while there was brewing going on in the garage, but I suspect that's a rarity.

Click to expand...

For me, I NEED to bulid an electric setup, and move it inside...This will alow me to brew year round, no matter the weather. Having a newborn, a PID, or BCS setup will "save" my beer(maintaining temp, etc...) should I have to quickly help my wife with something.

I like to tinker, and I love brewing beer. If I could grow my own grain, I would.

Hunlock said:

For me, I NEED to bulid an electric setup, and move it inside...This will alow me to brew year round, no matter the weather. Having a newborn, a PID, or BCS setup will "save" my beer(maintaining temp, etc...) should I have to quickly help my wife with something.

I like to tinker, and I love brewing beer. If I could grow my own grain, I would.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't talking about going electric/getting a PID. I was just talking about the general question of simple breweries versus more automated setups and the reasons behind it. Don't get me wrong, I like to tinker as well!

I get enough carpal tunnel at my 9-5, I don't need to add more during the weekends.

This whole path can be a budget friendly journey over years and years. For me, I don't even feel the need to know where it all ends!

I know that some folks worry about, "if I don't have a detailed plan from kick-off to goal line, I will waste a lot of money" but that's not entirely true.

For me, I started with some buckets, a canning pot and an old cooler. Pretty cheap and I eventually handed them off to another beginner.

Stepped up to keggles and one propane burner. (these will carry thru) 3-tier cobbled together with work benches/shop lumber/ect.

Then I built a portable RIMS.

Then I built a nice 2-tier stand with one pump and another burner, dissected the portable RIMS into the stand with manifolds & hoses with QD's. Since my temp controller burned up long ago, I even ran a batch manually controlling the RIMS with just a light switch. Still lighting burner manually. Watching thermometers. Switching valves. Moving hoses.

Now I have my PID/SSR wired up for the RIMS control. If I eventually step up to BCS, the PID will get used elsewhere.... or it's a whole $35 'wasted!' Brewing again this weekend, btw. Brewing the entire journey in fact!

Next will come electric burner ignitors. (just arrived, yet to install)

..... and the entire journey so far has been a blast! I've learned so much. Met so many great folks. Where does the whole journey end? Only the Good Lord knows!

I started with basic kit and a turkey fryer. After 3 brews I went all grain with a brew stand, 3 keggles, and jet burners. After 15 brews on that I built an all electric system with the BCS-460 and it's been awesome. I have beers that are original recipes and I heavily automate those brew days to maintain repeatability. When I'm doing clones, experimentals, or having beginners over to brew with me I use the system as a temp. monitor and do everything in manual mode. I would not want to go back to brewing without the BCS. It practically ensures a good brew day. As a person who has missed temps low and high and made late night runs to buy propane this system has been rock solid and it's great to hit and maintain the temps you aim for.