Newbie problem

I just started brewing my own beer at home. I bought the equipment from a Brew-Your-Own Wine Store (5 Gal Pail, Carbuoy, Siphon, SG Tester etc.) and I purchased my dextrose and beer kit from the wine store as well. Here's my problem, the beer has a really wierd taste, almost like a wine taste. I know that you are not supposed to brew beer and wine in the same place because the yeast from one can contaminate the other. So I was wondering if there is a possibility of my dextrose being contaminated with yeast from the wine store since it was sitting on the shelf there for a while, and therefore affecting my beer?? I am not a picky when it comes to my beers but this beer is gross?? I was thinking of buying my dextrose from somewhere else for my next batch and see if it changes anything? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21.html try reading this on-line book and If you follow it I guarentee you'll make great beer.

I can guarantee you that cross-contamination from a wine yeast is not your issue. What was the recipe for your beer, i.e., ingredients of your beer kit? Did it involve adding a measure of sugar to the boil with the extract? If so, you could get a cidery off-flavor from the sugar. Try again with an all-malt recipe.

I'm not sure of the exact ingredients, however, I did mix 1kg of dextrose with the kit contents at the beginning. I added another 3/4 cup at the very end of the process before bottling?

Thanks Boo Boo, I will check it out!

dan02 said:

I'm not sure of the exact ingredients, however, I did mix 1kg of dextrose with the kit contents at the beginning. I added another 3/4 cup at the very end of the process before bottling?

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That's most likely the culprit here; using a lot of sugar for alcohol content will reduce body and increase cidery off-flavors. I'd hold my nose and drink it, and make sure when you order your next kit it's an all-malt kit, i.e., no sugar added until bottling time. Even when those kits call for sugar you can always replace it with some malt extract.

not trying to ask a dumb question, but you did let it ferment correct? and if so how long?

fermented for 5 days in the plastic pail and then 5 days in the carbuoy.

I will try an all-malt kit next time... what kind did I use this time??? (yes, i'm VERY new at this)

A total of 10 days with 5 days for fermentation and 5 more for conditioning in secondary is on the low side. The rule of thumb is 1 week in primary and two weeks in secondary, then bottle and let condition for three weeks. Most people consider that a practical minimum for good tasting beer. There are a lot of variations, of course, depending on whether you are kegging or bottling, how patient you are, and what your tolerance for young beer is.

How long did you let your beer condition in bottles before tasting? It might just be a case of green beer that will improve over the next few weeks.

My first batch I left in primary for 11 days, in secondary for 2 weeks and 2 days, then I bottled it. When I tasted it on bottling day, it was flat as expected, but it also had medicine-like flavors and a coppery bitterness, and I was worried that it wouldn't be drinkable. I opened one yesterday after three weeks in bottles and it tasted great! I'm betting it'll be even better after another week or two.

dan02 said:

I will try an all-malt kit next time... what kind did I use this time??? (yes, i'm VERY new at this)

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For an all-malt kit, the only dextrose included should be about 3/4 cup or so for bottling day. All the other fermentables come from malted grain. There may be other specialty grains and adjuncts other than sugar, but the main course would be either DME or LME, hops, water, and yeast.

LME is liquid malt extract. It is a very thick syrup of made from malted grain wort that has been boiled down to a condensed state.

DME is dry malt extract. It is a wort that has been completely dehydrated.

It's cane sugar that supposedly causes a cidery taste, not dextrose.

Perhaps Dan is just tasting excess alcohol, caused by adding extra sugar? Or maybe an infection? Did you cool the wort quickly? Did you sanitise all your equipment?

Can you describe the off taste better? Vinegar? Cardboard? Astringent(tea?)

The stuff I used came out of the can like a syrup?? Would this be an all malt kit??

Casebrew - what is the "wort"?? The beer tastes as though it is mixed with wjite wine (cidery)

If you added a kilo of sugar (any kind), it isn't all malt. The stuff in the can is LME, liquid malt extract. More of that and less sugar is better. Your local home brew store (LHBS is the common abbreviation) probably sells bulk LME separate from kits, so you can always add more to replace the sugar. Ask here for help when constructing recipes.

Wort is beer before you add the yeast. Once you add the yeast and it starts fermenting, it's called beer or ale.

This site homebrewzone is loaded with good tips on home brewing, especially starting on the homebrew tips page. And a description of faults and their causes can be found on the off flavors and aromas page. The likely cause of your problem, already mentioned several times here, is described there.

Reading that might help you to relate what you are tasting to the practices you employed when brewing. After reviewing that, you might want to discuss in more detail the actual steps you took to brew so that others here can help you better.

Basically, you haven't given us enough information to really work with yet. For example, I asked how long you'd conditioned your brew in bottles, if that's what you are doing, since you racked it out of secondary.

Beerforbreakfast - Sorry... it has been in the bottles for about 2 1/2 weeks now...I will check out the sites you recommended. Thanks for your help.

Ok... I just tried a beer that was made like 2 months ago by the exact same process by which I made mine (it was made by a friend who told me how to do it, it used to have that gross cidery taste as well initially) after weeks of no improvement I pretty much wrote it off as a bad beer and stored it away in the basement. However, I just tried one and it actually tastes like Beer!!!!! Is there a chance that because of the excess dextrose added (1KG) that the beer just takes longer to develope?? Would more suger = more alcohol?? Maybe there is hope for my beer in a couple of months after all!

Thanks

Dan

that could very well be whats going on. I have had beers I made take 6 - 9 months of conditioing to finally turn out. and yes, basicly more sugar = more ETOH

What does ETOH mean???

One more question. I was thinking of switching to kegging my beer instead of bottling, just for ease and convenience. Are there any downsides to kegging? Do I have to use CO2? Will the beer taste the same, better, worse?? Will the CO2 effect the aging of the beer? Will it require less time to mature??
And... I want to start All-Grain brewing. What is the basic equipment needed for this? What is the significance of a false bottom pot??

Thanks in advance

How long does the actual boiling take during the all-grain method? After the boiling of the stuff (what is the stuff??) will I end up with that syrupy stuff?? Will this stink up my house (thinking of doing it in my kitchen) I have a coleman stove that is about 20000BTU, is this hot enough? Or I was thinking of using my BBQ if using my kitchen is impractical.

Thanks for all the help. I'm just getting in to this (incase it wasn't obvious)

casebrew said:

It's cane sugar that supposedly causes a cidery taste, not dextrose.

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Although cane sugar does cause some nasty off flavors, dextrose (corn sugar) is often cited as causing cidery flavor as well. I noticed it a bit in my first kit beer that used 2 lbs of the stuff.

ETHO is short for ethanol.

Kegging you will nee a CO2 tank. You can carbonate naturally by adding corn sugar to the kegged beer, but you will still need to get the beer out of the keg. The easiest thing to do is to force carbonate with the tank. Downsides? More equipment but it is definately easier.

The main piece of equipment you need for all grain is a mash/lauter tun. This is usually a cooler, at least 5 gallons, with a manifold, braid or false bottom at the bottomthat will seperate the liquid wort from the grain after the mash has been finished (soaking the grains in 148-156 degree water for an hour to activate enzymes that convert starches into fermentable sugars). All of the other equipment is the same, all though you might need a bigger pot to do full volume boils. 10 gallons is a perfect size for a pot for 7 gallons of wort, but you can make a 30 qt. turkey fryer work. I have one, but I wish I had a 10 gallon pot.

dan02 said:

How long does the actual boiling take during the all-grain method? After the boiling of the stuff (what is the stuff??) will I end up with that syrupy stuff?? Will this stink up my house (thinking of doing it in my kitchen) I have a coleman stove that is about 20000BTU, is this hot enough? Or I was thinking of using my BBQ if using my kitchen is impractical.

Thanks for all the help. I'm just getting in to this (incase it wasn't obvious)

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The boil is at least an hour. More if you end up collecting more wort (the stuff). You won't end up with syrup, but you will end up with a sweet liquid. A full boil is best done outside on a propane burner. Most household ranges are not powerful to keep 6.5 gallons at a vigorous rolling boil. You need somewhere around 50,000 BTU, which is pretty standard on most turkey fryers. Again I have one and it puts out plenty of heat. As far as "stinking up the house", define stink. Will it smell like beer brewing? Yes. Will SWMBO appreciate the smell? Depends on the wife/girlfriend/roommates.

Definitely agree that a good burner outside is a great way to go. My gas range actually would maintain a healthy 6+ gallon boil, but the brew kettle didn't fit very well on the stovetop. My wife actually likes the smell of a good brew day, but I brew outside now.

Hey dan02, check out the Bottling/Kegging section of the forum. There are so many good threads there about kegging that you'll spend hours and hours reading them. I doubt I could personally do the subject justice since I'm not a kegger. Yet.

Boiling in the all-grain method often takes longer than with extracts only because you are typically boiling larger volumes of wort. However, the heat source you are using can make a huge difference too. All-grainers are usually boiling on a propane or natural gas cooker that puts out a lot more heat than the average household range.

The time consuming part of all-grain is the mashing and lautering. You also need more equipment, typically a kettle to heat water and a mash tun is the minimum. Most AG-ers have three vessels. You heat water for the mash, then you steep the grains for typically an hour, perhaps with water additions at different times and temperatures, then lauter (rinse) with more hot water. You collect the runnings (wort) and boil that in your boil kettle. Normally that is anywhere from 6 to 7 or so gallons of wort you are boiling down for a final 5 gallon batch. You need pots that can handle that kind of volume. You need serious heat to bring it to a boil. 20,000 BTU propane burner or a BBQ might not do the trick easily, or it might. There are a lot of variables.

If you want to get a good overview of AG, check out section 3 in John Palmer's online How To Brew.