New to Cider and i have a question

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brewluver

brewluver

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I have been reading alot of threads about Apfelwein and cider and had a couple of questions . I would like to make Cider or Apfelwein that has a good apple flavor. I have read that most ends up dry and very little apple taste. I don't have a kegging system yet and do want to bottle carb.


1. Could you add apple extract that you buy at home brew stores to give it more apple flavor? I have never used these and wanted some input on how they work for flavoring.


2. I have also seen some people talking about using the frozen apple concentrate to carb instead of corn sugar. would this add more flavor or would the flavor disappear since the sugar is being converted.


I will be using Edworts apfelwein receipe. I'm just trying to make what sounds like a great drink to me something a little sweeter for SWMBO.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


5 Gallons 100% Apple Juice (No preservatives or additives) I use Tree Top Apple Juice
2 pounds of dextrose (corn sugar) in one pound bags
1 five gram packet of Montrachet Wine Yeast
 
although you will find a lot of variation on here as far as people's favorite recipies, i'm sure everyone will agree that if you dont want a dry wine-like cider, dont use wine yeast.

myself as well as others have had good use with ale yeast. wyeast 3068 ( a hefe yeast) seems to be the overall most recommended. I would also recommend Safale 04, or 05.

good question about priming with concentrate, i have been wondering the same thing. i hope someone can comment on whether it will actually add apple flavor since the sugars will ferment out.

good luck on your first cider! :mug:
 
what i compute is that if you keep your sugar level in check during fermentation, and force-stop it before it hits dryness, you will keep sweet apple juice flavors.

4 days ago, i started my 3 gallons of juice at OG 1.044 . First batch ever. I did not put any extra sugar in the juice. Extracted the juice from fresh apples. I took a sample today, and its now at OG 1.020, around 3.2% alcohol... i use Prise De Mousse EC-1118 yeasts from the Champagne region in France...

it has all its fresh apple juice flavors and aromas, plus a subtle not-unpleasant yeasts taste (normal at this point since has just been 3 hours in the fridge and very cloudy), some classic hard-cider aromas undertones are starting to show up and what i sense like a very light "banana candy" smell... it was still pretty sweet to me so i will let it continue for a day or two so it reaches 010 or 015... you want to get to an alcohol % of at least 4 so it can mature and clarify safely for a while... 6% being better if you want to mature it longer or simply to make for more fun! High Five! (excuse the Borat moment here) The other batch i've started i've put honey in it to raise the OG to 1.060 prior to pitch the yeasts. More fun!

so. I am far from being an expert and anyone is welcome to correct me, but i think that if you want to keep sweetness and apple taste, just stop ferment by cold-crashing it before it hits a gravity of 1.000, maybe around 1.010 and 1.020 ...some people do this with chemicals to stunt the yeasts but im not to fond of chemicals...

this thread is also an awesome source of inspiration. maybe you've read it it but eh :mug: Lots on ideas about kegging and force-carb also...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/
 
For what it is worth I'll throw my two cents worth in.

I agree with Wreckinball. If you don't want a dry cider don't use wine yeast. I'm real appy with the Safale S 04 It has a real fruity flavor and it cold crashes well, lke Felix notes.

I've tried the the concentrate before and I don't really think that it picks up the flavor that much. I never used the apple flavoring that is in the homebrew shops. I have used the raspberry and was very happy with that.

Take a look at the First post on the page on juice/yeast and sugar as Felix mentioned.
 
felix said:
what i compute is that if you keep your sugar level in check during fermentation, and force-stop it before it hits dryness, you will keep sweet apple juice flavors.

4 days ago, i started my 3 gallons of juice at OG 1.044 . First batch ever. I did not put any extra sugar in the juice. Extracted the juice from fresh apples. I took a sample today, and its now at OG 1.020, around 3.2% alcohol... i use Prise De Mousse EC-1118 yeasts from the Champagne region in France...

it has all its fresh apple juice flavors and aromas, plus a subtle not-unpleasant yeasts taste (normal at this point since has just been 3 hours in the fridge and very cloudy), some classic hard-cider aromas undertones are starting to show up and what i sense like a very light "banana candy" smell... it was still pretty sweet to me so i will let it continue for a day or two so it reaches 010 or 015... you want to get to an alcohol % of at least 4 so it can mature and clarify safely for a while... 6% being better if you want to mature it longer or simply to make for more fun! High Five! (excuse the Borat moment here) The other batch i've started i've put honey in it to raise the OG to 1.060 prior to pitch the yeasts. More fun!

so. I am far from being an expert and anyone is welcome to correct me, but i think that if you want to keep sweetness and apple taste, just stop ferment by cold-crashing it before it hits a gravity of 1.000, maybe around 1.010 and 1.020 ...some people do this with chemicals to stunt the yeasts but im not to fond of chemicals...

this thread is also an awesome source of inspiration. maybe you've read it it but eh :mug: Lots on ideas about kegging and force-carb also...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/
Click to expand...

while it's true that stopping fermentation around 1.010 will keep it sweeter, if you plan to bottle carb you will need to have active yeast. so you cant kill off the yeast and you will get bottle bombs if you leave active yeast in your bottles with that much fermentable sugar left. you will have to backsweeten with non fermentable sweetener ( splenda etc), or kill off the yeast and not be able to have naturally carbed bottles. if you dont mind non carbonated cider, you will need some campden and potassium sorbate to deactivate the yeast when its to your liking.

+1 on reading Kevins sticky thread at the top of the page
 
brewluver said:
I have been reading alot of threads about Apfelwein and cider and had a couple of questions . I would like to make Cider or Apfelwein that has a good apple flavor. I have read that most ends up dry and very little apple taste. I don't have a kegging system yet and do want to bottle carb.


1. Could you add apple extract that you buy at home brew stores to give it more apple flavor? I have never used these and wanted some input on how they work for flavoring.


2. I have also seen some people talking about using the frozen apple concentrate to carb instead of corn sugar. would this add more flavor or would the flavor disappear since the sugar is being converted.


I will be using Edworts apfelwein receipe. I'm just trying to make what sounds like a great drink to me something a little sweeter for SWMBO.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


5 Gallons 100% Apple Juice (No preservatives or additives) I use Tree Top Apple Juice
2 pounds of dextrose (corn sugar) in one pound bags
1 five gram packet of Montrachet Wine Yeast
Click to expand...

1. Yes, but I've heard that such extracts add an "artificial-like" flavour to the end product.

2. Yes, there is a discussion of this exact topic somewhere on this site, I just can't remember the exact location. Look through the sticky "Man I love apfelwein" or the "Better than apfelwein" thread. Someone even calculated how much frozen apple juice concentrate (FAJC) to add instead of priming sugar to carbonate.

I have a batch in secondary that uses 12 oz. FAJC per gallon of apple juice + 12 oz of FWGJC for body & 1.5 oz fresh ginger.

Good luck on finding the info & sorry I couldn't remember the exact locations for them. Regards, GF.
 
Most commercial apple ciders (do you folks in the states have commercial ciders much - we have two brands here in BC) have natural apple flavouring (extract) added. Normal cider is fairly neutral in flavour and the advantage of this is that you can flavour it with a variety of things. You can get more flavour if you process your own apples by leaving the skins on for fermentation but its an acquired taste and not to everyone's liking. If you want some interesting flavours then ferment the cider fairly warm with a high esther producing yeast - once again this depends on if you like this kind of flavour.
The standard routine for me for a clear sweet sparkling cider is to ferment as dry as your yeast will go at about 25 Celcius. Cool as close as you can to freezing, fine or filter to get out as much yeast as you can and back sweeten with your choice of sugar (use concentrate if you like) You must add sorbate so the few remaining yeast cannot reactivate and Its a good idea to add sulfate to reduce oxidation. Then force carbonate.
 
Thank you everyone for the responses, i think i will make a 5 gallon batch then when it is time to carb and bottle i will split the batch and do i normal and one with the apple extract to try out. I will let everyone know how it turns out.
 

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