15 gallon plastic conical design...

I'm thinking of borrowing some ideas from the following web page:

http://www.northchautauquahomebrewers.com/ferment/ferment.htm

I wanna know what you pros on HBT think about the process used on that web page, e.g., using rubber weatherstrip, using PVC, etc.

I don't think I'll be doin the lid modification and blowoff tube.

Looks nicely done to me. I would normally be concerned about the rubber weather stripping, but since it probably doesn't come in contact with the beer, it shouldn't be an issue.

A question about using these large plastic fermentors. I had one of those 6 gallon buckets with my original kits. After about 6 batches the plastic became overly stained (Even with good hot soapy bleach water cleanings imediatly after use) and soon I couldn't get the beer smell out of it. I was concerned about infecting my beers and retired the bucket and just used my glass carboys.

With that said, are these fermentors made of a different plastic that won't do what my bucket did or are these $160 fermentors only good for half a dozen or so uses?

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Looks nicely done to me. I would normally be concerned about the rubber weather stripping, but since it probably doesn't come in contact with the beer, it shouldn't be an issue.

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I was thinking the same thing. It looks like it is placed on the very top-outside part of the mounted ring that the lid screws onto. Is that what it looks like to you?

What do you guys think about the pvc? You think it's ok to run beer through it?

mmurray said:

A question about using these large plastic fermentors. I had one of those 6 gallon buckets with my original kits. After about 6 batches the plastic became overly stained (Even with good hot soapy bleach water cleanings imediatly after use) and soon I couldn't get the beer smell out of it. I was concerned about infecting my beers and retired the bucket and just used my glass carboys.

With that said, are these fermentors made of a different plastic that won't do what my bucket did or are these $160 fermentors only good for half a dozen or so uses?

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My buckets have a beer smell to it, but not really much staining. It's nothing to worry about. There's even a significant amount of scratches. I just use starsan to sanitize, and I never had any kind of infection (and never will).

I believe they are made of MDPE or HDPE just like the buckets. Do not pay $160 for one of these. I paid $55 for mine plus $10 S&H through Big R. They order from a distrubutor who orders from Ace.

My concern is not for the use of plastic but for the use of PVC or any design flaws that I could realize in order to improve the design. Do you see any redundancies or mistakes in the design?

Thanks.

As long as you use CPVC, you should be fine. If you're concerned about it, I'm sure you can upgrade to a stainless ball valve, but you'd want to go with something big so your yeast slurry doesn't clog it.

I also have a beer smell to most of my buckets. It's not really something you can control. My sanitation and cleaning process is pretty intense, so I'm not forseeing any infections in the near future. I do replace my buckets after about 10-15 batches though. They only cost $6-7 a piece, so why risk it?

All of these conicals, whatever material they're made out of, have a valve on the bottom and one near the bottom. Why would you need both? It seems to me that you could do everything right from the bottom. When you rack you could dump the trub and then rack the beer. You wouldn't have to worry about building a pickup tube to reach the bottom. What am I missing?

Good question.

Sometimes a person would want to rack the beer out, leaving the yeast cake alone. They would then rack their next batch of wort onto the yeast cake producing a more effective fermentation scenario while saving money on the cost of yeast.

Sometimes a person would like to take samples (for one reason or another) while the beer is fermenting or without disturbing the yeast cake.

Racking the beer may be easier when dumping at an angle (as opposed to straight down or some other way of draining from the bottom of the tank).

There's a few other logical reasons for a rotating racking arm that I can't remember off the top of my head.

I hope that someone else also has some input about this subject...


However, I agree with you and you are not missing anything important. I will not be installing a racking arm for the reason you described.

It's good to see someone is using one of these plastics guys. Every time someone boasts they are about to spend hundreds of dollars (sometimes thousands) on a stainless conical I try to at least show them these. Maybe we can get a new fad going. Cheap but effective homebrewing. It could be the new black.

I use the MiniBrew 6.5 plastic conical. I love it. It is easy to clean and the beer smell is gone after a light scrub with a sponge and a soak in a weak bleach solution. I use the upper valve to take gravity readings. It seems to be a much more sanitary way of extracting small amounts of beer part way thought a fermentation. I use the lower valve to drain off the trub and harvest yeast without exposing the beer to very much outside air. I leave the airlock (double bubble) on and filled with vodka to sort of sterilize the air that gets sucked in while draining. I am not sure if this actually helps... but it makes me feel better. I really like mine. I paid $170 for it... well before I found the tanks on USplastics.com. I am going to build my next one. I do use a carboy... merely to free up the conical if I want to do any real aging and still have my main fermenter available. I highly recommend giving the plastic conical route a try.

itsme6582 said:

It's good to see someone is using one of these plastics guys. Every time someone boasts they are about to spend hundreds of dollars (sometimes thousands) on a stainless conical I try to at least show them these. Maybe we can get a new fad going. Cheap but effective homebrewing. It could be the new black.

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Dude, I totally agree.

I see an average of $800 for each SS 15 gallon conical. I spent $75 on the conical, reducer bushing, nipple, and valve. Quite the difference in $$$ for the same quality beer.

It's definitely the new black for me - so far, I've spent about half as much as the average homebrewer for equipment cuz of eBay, CL, etc. It takes patience though.

I hope that this thread helps with gettin the fad goin.

Still contemplating the rotating racking arm though. I might install one just for schnitzengiggles.

Do you have a conical set up? If so, any pics?

Nope. No conical. These are listed in my some day folder in my bookmarks. Space requirements and funds are holding me back. Although the funds for these sort of projects end up showing up if I try hard enough. Still won't have anywhere to put it.

Some day...

This looks very promising...I like it...a quick note on brass connectors...which I tend to avoid...John Palmer notes a very simple technique in his book for treating brass which should be followed if you are going to use a lot of brass coz it's cheap. Check online or in the appendix B.

kcwcc said:

This looks very promising...I like it...a quick note on brass connectors...which I tend to avoid...John Palmer notes a very simple technique in his book for treating brass which should be followed if you are going to use a lot of brass coz it's cheap. Check online or in the appendix B.

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I'll be usin a 1" brass valve for my dump valve (and rotating racking arm, if I build it). Also, I'll be using all brass valves on my Brutus 10 build. Savin $$$...

You speak of the "pickling" method, right? Here it is from appendix B:

"Cleaning Brass
Some brewers use brass fittings in conjunction with their wort chillers or other brewing equipment and are concerned about the lead that is present in brass alloys. A solution of two parts white vinegar to one part hydrogen peroxide (common 3% solution) will remove tarnish and surface lead from brass parts when they are soaked for 5 minutes or less at room temperature. The brass will turn a buttery yellow color as it is cleaned. If the solution starts to turn green and the brass darkens, then the parts have been soaking too long and the copper in the brass is beginning to dissolve, exposing more lead. The solution has become contaminated and the part should be re-cleaned in a fresh solution."

Yep...that's the one! Savin' $$$ or not, I still prefer stainless. I am not a complete SS head though...I also like PVC...you can run it through the dishwasher periodically without the better half blowing a gasket..."I mean, it's not like I'm degreasing a bloody engine here honey, it's just a couple of plastic valves!" FWIW I use my pressure cooker to sterilize my stainless valves and fittings during my total breakdown and scour cleanings.

kcwcc said:

Yep...that's the one! Savin' $$$ or not, I still prefer stainless. I am not a complete SS head though...I also like PVC...you can run it through the dishwasher periodically without the better half blowing a gasket..."I mean, it's not like I'm degreasing a bloody engine here honey, it's just a couple of plastic valves!" FWIW I use my pressure cooker to sterilize my stainless valves and fittings during my total breakdown and scour cleanings.

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Women don't understand how important these pieces of equipment are to us - kinda like how we don't understand how important another purse or pair of shoes is to them.

Do you think it would be easier to use starsan instead of the pressure cooker?

I prefer SS, as well. I'm all about the bling. However, my finances are tight with two kids and a mortgage. On top of all the bills, I got money going into like 3 savings accounts.

I'll be savin about $1000 on my brutus by not using SS. That's a lot of beer money right there.

Anyways, everyone, check out this dude's plastic conical:
http://frugalconicalfermenter.blogspot.com/

Durden said:

Anyways, everyone, check out this dude's plastic conical:
http://frugalconicalfermenter.blogspot.com/

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Now I don't want to say this isn't pretty sweet. However, this isn't the kind of thing that is gonna make people turn their head. Someone's gotta have a pic of a plastic setup that will give a rise in the pants.

itsme6582 said:

Now I don't want to say this isn't pretty sweet. However, this isn't the kind of thing that is gonna make people turn their head. Someone's gotta have a pic of a plastic setup that will give a rise in the pants.

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I didn't realize I needed to market this thread...

Well, once you get the funds and the space for it, I expect to see your pic of a bonerific plastic setup on this thread.

It'll be a little while before I post mine. Busy with lots and lots of other sh*t, ya know? Wish I had more time for this sh*t!

Oh, well... at least I always have enough homebrew to drink!

Durden said:

Do you think it would be easier to use starsan instead of the pressure cooker?

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Absolutely...I use star san for day-to-day....but I like to tear the whole thing down and really clean everything at least once a year too...but that's just me.

Durden said:

It'll be a little while before I post mine. Busy with lots and lots of other sh*t, ya know? Wish I had more time for this sh*t!

Oh, well... at least I always have enough homebrew to drink!

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Ditto... I've got a perfectly good conical fermenter at the moment. As soon as I finish the other 96 projects I have planned for the brewery. I'll get right on the "bonerific" conical thread. Until then we'll just have to settle for mediocre projects that save us $500 a pop.

x2wdtoyotax said:

Ditto... I've got a perfectly good conical fermenter at the moment. As soon as I finish the other 96 projects I have planned for the brewery. I'll get right on the "bonerific" conical thread. Until then we'll just have to settle for mediocre projects that save us $500 a pop.

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What kind of projects do ya got goin fer yer brewery?

I was looking at the usplastics website and saw they have a conical in the gal size. It has some squared off corners. Is there any reason I would need to be concerned about those corners if I need something a little smaller for smaller batches?

I can't really think of a reason why square would matter? The yeast/trub might get hung up and not settle as well as in the conical, but it shouldn't be that big of an issue.

I just recently bought one of the plastic 15 gallon conicals myself. I won't be modifying it until my basement brew room is ready, though.

In the frugalfermenter link the guy says that oxygen will permeate the container in a relatively short period of time, and as a result he doesn't leave it in there for more than three weeks. I was under the impression that these things were fairly impermeable and good for much longer storage. Anyone have any contradictory evidence or data?

Fingers said:

I just recently bought one of the plastic 15 gallon conicals myself. I won't be modifying it until my basement brew room is ready, though.

In the frugalfermenter link the guy says that oxygen will permeate the container in a relatively short period of time, and as a result he doesn't leave it in there for more than three weeks. I was under the impression that these things were fairly impermeable and good for much longer storage. Anyone have any contradictory evidence or data?

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http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=25197&clickid=redirect

This webpage says everything bout the conical i bought but doesn't say anything about oxygen permeating, so I can't find nothin. I'm also fairly under the impression that you are. Think about how much oxygen bombards the beer when it's siphoned out of the primary fermenter into a keg/bottles. I guarantee that it's way more than from sitting is a MDPE (UV inhibited) plastic tank, and I don't think siphoning out of the primary ruins the beer, so I... need to go to sleep.

I think the oxygen permeability of plastic is overstated. Aren't 90% of us fermenting in plastic buckets anyway? Another thing I have a question about is limiting the specific gravity to 1.7. Is this just to ensure the tank will be strong enough to handle the weight of a high gravity liquid when full or is there another property such a high gravity could effect?

I just got an email from US Plastics about these containers. The specific gravity is just to provide a maximum weight when full. With a 15 gallon conical, you could put 10 gallons of wort with up to a OG of 2.55. They also stated they have not performed any oxygen permeability testing with these tanks.

itsme6582 said:

I just got an email from US Plastics about these containers. The specific gravity is just to provide a maximum weight when full. With a 15 gallon conical, you could put 10 gallons of wort with up to a OG of 2.55. They also stated they have not performed any oxygen permeability testing with these tanks.

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Thanks for the research! So no worries about gravity. There probably no point in testin oxygen perm. cuz the amount is negligible. I noticed that my beer tastes better over time (a long time), so any oxidizing that happens is neglible. God, I f*ckin' love coffee...

Durden said:

What kind of projects do ya got goin fer yer brewery?

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Oh you know... the usual. ...

1. I have 3 sanke's that need cutting, drilling, welding, and polishing. :rockin:

2. I am also in the design phase of my 2 or 3 tier sculpture.

3. I started assembling my DIY stir plate, but haven't got the spacing just right for my stir bar.

4. I just bought a knock-off "wort wizard" that I have to rig up for pumping into my conical.

5. I need to build a fermentation chiller. Lower Alabama isn't kind to fermentation temperatures in the summer.

I could go on for days.

x2wdtoyotax said:

Oh you know... the usual. ...

1. I have 3 sanke's that need cutting, drilling, welding, and polishing. :rockin:

2. I am also in the design phase of my 2 or 3 tier sculpture.

3. I started assembling my DIY stir plate, but haven't got the spacing just right for my stir bar.

4. I just bought a knock-off "wort wizard" that I have to rig up for pumping into my conical.

5. I need to build a fermentation chiller. Lower Alabama isn't kind to fermentation temperatures in the summer.

I could go on for days.

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Sounds like fun!

x2wdtoyotax said:

2. I am also in the design phase of my 2 or 3 tier sculpture.

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What have you decided on doing with your rig? I'm in the beginning stages of planning one myself.

I'm thinking of just building a rolling cabinet to store everything. I can put a cooler MLT on top and gravity drain it to a keggle. I'll use the keggle as a BK and as a HLT. I'm pretty sure I can do this with a minimum of equipment (no pump) and space.

itsme6582 said:

What have you decided on doing with your rig? I'm in the beginning stages of planning one myself.

I'm thinking of just building a rolling cabinet to store everything. I can put a cooler MLT on top and gravity drain it to a keggle. I'll use the keggle as a BK and as a HLT. I'm pretty sure I can do this with a minimum of equipment (no pump) and space.

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Lets not hijack... I just started a new thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/anyone-use-brewtree-165868/#post1917358 Check it out.

I know this is an OLD thread.... But I just obtained a 15gal plastic conical and am converting it to ferment. I keep seeing "Rotating Racking Arm" and would like to know more about it, how to build it and use it. Any suggested threads?

I made my own racking arm out of 1/2" copper pipe, and elbow, and a 5/8" to 1/2 mpt compression fitting. Checked it with water, I should only leave a quart or so in the bottom of the fermenter. Id' post pictures but I already put wort in it!