Beer Theory: Fermentation Time

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Octang

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What is the theory behind the 1-2-3 method? (one week primary, two week secondary and three weeks in the bottle) More specifically, what is the theory behind the 2 weeks in the secondary? I understand it is mainly to serve to clear the beer. But does the beer require the whole two weeks to clear? If I bottle it short of 2 weeks will my beer be cloudier, taste different?

The reason I ask is that I see people say this is a "general" rule to use a "guideline". Well, how do you know how to "listen" to your beer and break these rules (assuming the hydrometer showed that it finished fermenting in the first week)?

I'm just looking to become a little more educated. Thanks again!
 
There are only a couple of styles that I bottle/keg within a month of pitching. Those two styles are a wheat and mild. I probably should wait longer on those. After the beer finishes the yeast will continue to clean up some off flavors in the beer. Keeping the beer on that yeast cake will help it clean up.
 
A couple of things:

Smaller beers can generally be bottled sooner, as they need less time to condition (for the yeast to clean up after themselves and go to sleep).

Wheat beers need virtually no conditioning time- I bottled them after 10 days.

Secondaries are optional- a lot of folks here don't use them, preferring to leave the beer in primary for 3 weeks.

3 weeks is a general guideline, because most ales will benefit from the bulk conditioning- they'll get a bit smoother, clearer, and rid themselves of off flavors in the intervening time. That same conditioning will happen in the bottles, but the going wisdom seems to be that it happens a lot faster in the fermenter, so your beer gets better faster if you wait a bit to bottle it. This isn't hard and fast- some folks like to drink IPAs early, to maximize the hop experience.

Really big beers, like Imperial Stouts, Wee Heavies, and Barleywines, will benefit from extra conditioning time- often not hitting their prime for 6 months.

So yeah, there are several factors, but for the average 5-6%abv ale, the 1-2-3 (or 3-3 if you forgo the secondary) will serve you well. I use it to keep me from rushing the beer and drinking it before it has a chance to get really good.
 
Another method to consider is to leave your beer in the primary fermenter for 3-4 weeks, then bottle it. I've been leaving my beers in primary for 4 plus weeks (I learned about it on this site) and I couldn't be happier. It eliminates a step in racking to a clearing tank, and less hassle is what I'm after!

edit: I like elkdog's explanation. My suggestion for leaving beers in primary generally goes for beers with a OG of 1.065ish or less. Big beers definately benefit from bulk aging even longer than 4 weeks.
 
As a general rule, longer is better. The 1-2-3 rule is meant as a minimum for most beers to make sure that it clears before bottling and has time to carbonate before you start drinking it. I started close to that. Actually went 2 weeks in primary and two in secondary, but have since gone longer than that in primary and my beer has definitely benefited from the extra time.

I have an arrogant bastard clone that I brewed on 6/19 that I'm just bottling tonight. :D
 
In Mr Wizard's colum in BYO this month he made an interesting analogy about brewing and baking....He said that egg timers are all well and good in the baking process but they only provide a "rule of thumb" as to when something is ready...recipes, oven types, heck even atmospheric conditions, STILL have more bearing on when a cake is ready than the time it says it will be done in the cook book. You STILL have to stick a toothpick in the center and pull it out to see if truly the cake is ready.....otherwise you may end up with a raw cake....

Not too different from our beers....We can have a rough idea when our beer is ready (or use something silly like the 1-2-3 rule (which doesn't factor in things like yeast lag time or even ambient temp during fermentation) and do things to our beer willy nilly....but unless we actually stick "our toothpick" (the hydrometer) in and let it tell us when the yeasties are finished...we too can "f" our beer up.

We forget this simple fact...We are not making koolaid, or chocolate quick, just stirring in and having instant gratification...when you pitch yeast, you are dealing with living micro-organisms...and they have their own timetable, and their own agenda...You have to figure in a wild card.

Any rule of thumb we talk about is usually based on observation...BUT like I said, it should be taken with a grain of salt...because there are so many variables that come into play...Not just things like the gravity of the beer (which the higher the gravity the longer things take) but things on a a level beyond our perception.

Just like with other animals, including humans...No two behave the same.

You can split a batch in half put them in 2 identical carboys, and pitch equal amounts of yeast from the same starter...and have them act completely differently...one could even take longer to finish and taste good. or some reason on a subatomic level...think about it...yeasties are small...1 degree difference in temp to us, could be a 50 degree difference to them...one fermenter can be a couple degrees warmer because it's closer to a vent all the way across the room and the yeasties take off...

Someone, Grinder I think posted a pic once of 2 carboys touching each other, and one one of the carboys the krausen had formed only on the side that touched the other carboy...probably reacting to the heat of the first fermentation....but it was like symbiotic or something...

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in.....

The hydrometer is the best diagnostic tool we as brewers have. So don't fear it, or consider it "messing with your beer" consider it understanding your beer.

You will find Many of us here leave our beers in primary for a month, it is actually very good for the beer to leave it around that long...it improves taste and clarity vastly...

There are several dozen threads about long primary or no secondary, if you wanna know what it does and why we choose to do it, just do a thread search on those key words...there's like at least one new thread on it every 2-3 days so there's plenty of info.

I think you saw by the previous posters that the idea of "when is a beer really ready?" is actually replaced by the idea that "Patience is a virtue" whether it is in answer as to when to rack the beer to secondary (if at all), to when to bottle, to when is the bottles going to be ready....SO the best answer to that question would be Your beer is ready when it is ready, and it will probably be ready and fantastic in a time that is much longer than yours.

Even John Palmer in "How To Brew" mentions the benefits of waiting...

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

Like I have said repeatedly we are not the bosses of the beer...the yeasts are. They have been doing it for over 4,000 years, so they have tenure.

If You think something is done, then wait another week to 10 days and it will be done better......As much as I advocate the use of a hydrometer to ascertain done-ness I also advocate that even if the hydrometer shows the beer is done fermenting that the yeast are not done...that they are fastidious creatures, who will, if you give them plenty of time, will go back and clean up any messes they made during fermentation. They will often eat all the crap that most people would say causes off flavors (heck that is what a diacetyl rest is...you warm you beer up enough to get the yeast active, and it will swim around and eat all the chemicals that cause buttered popcorn tastes- It's nothing more than giving the yeast a shot at cleaning up it's own garbage.

:mug:
 
I recall a thread at another forum where people posted important things they had learned about home brewing. One said the 1-2-3 rule is bogus. lol.

I have my own sort of rule; 1.050 five weeks, 1.060 six weeks and so on. Primary, secondary and bottle don't matter as long as it's carbed and cleared in time. That seems to me to be when the flavor profile is set and stable. There still outliners, like weiss, spiced and others.
 
Just to throw my 0.02 in (and post whore just a little), I generally use a 4 week primary, 3 week bottle conditioning times. I've not done anything BIG (besides the apfelwein, that went for 2 months), so I've not had to really age a long time. I have forgotten on a couple of batches and bottles during week 5, but oh well. Little extra aging never hurt :)
 
123 gets way too much criticism and way too much credit.

In leau of any details, 123 will get you from a to b.

There are a lot of brewers that don't have or don't care to use a hydrometer. Everybody has a means of measuring time.
 
I also recommend Revvy's technique if you do not have a very good handle on how fermentation works and pay attention in detail to gravity readings and everything else that goes into the more technical aspects of brewing.

I believe the benefits of getting the beer off the dead yeast and trub at the proper time are real, however, the down side is also real. If you screw it up, you would have been better off just letting it finish and condition in one vessel.

If you are debating using the 1-2-3, you would be better served leaving the beer in the primary for 3 weeks.
 
I'd pay money to watch a live debate between Revvy and Kabouter on the aspect of when to rack.....

but I will agree - 3 weeks in the primary = better beer than 1 week.
 
I have had this book marked to read it and just did. Just to varifiy if I am going to tranfer into a secondary I want to wait for the fermentation to be complete like Revvy stated.

I have my first batch going and I had it in the primary for 2.5 weeks. Fermentation stopped after 1.5 weeks, so I had an additional 1 week for clean up and also hydrometer readings. I transfered to secondary for 1 week and I am bottling tomorrow. By the sound of Revvy's post, I have done things correctly...right?
 
I have had this book marked to read it and just did. Just to varifiy if I am going to tranfer into a secondary I want to wait for the fermentation to be complete like Revvy stated.

I have my first batch going and I had it in the primary for 2.5 weeks. Fermentation stopped after 1.5 weeks, so I had an additional 1 week for clean up and also hydrometer readings. I transfered to secondary for 1 week and I am bottling tomorrow. By the sound of Revvy's post, I have done things correctly...right?

so you had 2.5 primary and 1 week seconday?????????????? oh man, you listened to Revvy and screwed up big time!










I kid, I kid - you're fine (unless it's a really big beer) - and congrats on your patience :mug:
 
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