Help me decide on a "system" please

Ok, I am trying to build a 10 gallon system, but I really dont have a lot of extra money to do it. So I am proposing 2 methods and I'd like everyone's feedback on which one they think I should choose.

I currently have a Keggle and a SP10 Burner, with a 5 gallon round cooler MLT.

I am really intrigued by the "Constant Recirculation Direct Fired Mash System" as seen with the Brutus 20, and someone tried it here...I forget who right now. I was thinking that I could get a 10 gallon round drink cooler...or a bigger rectangle one...and buy a pump. I would have a 2 tier setup with one pump obviously, and there would be no 'Direct Fire' on the Mash Tun, but all my sparge water would be heated in the boil kettle and I could still do the recirculation for the Sparge process. I probably wouldn't do any recirc during the mash.

Ok, that's option 1.

Option 2 is...

Get a bigger cooler(I have the 50qt Ice Cube, but I think I will take it back...seems too thin), and get the 'Saf-T-Fryer' from Lowes(about $80). This is a turkey fryer that holds almost 10 gallons and the pot has a spigot. I'd use this as the HLT, and the rest would be the standard 3-Tier setup.

So that's it. I really would like to go with option 1. That way, I have a pump for the future, and I can do the Reciculation Sparge process, but is it stupid to try that CRDFM setup with a cooler instead of 2 kettles?

Thanks for sticking with me through this really long post.

shameless Bump...cuz I might be going to homedepot soon to get a cooler

*edit*
Re-Read post.

with the lack of funds I would go with the bigger and better cooler. Buy a cheap 7 gal turkey fryer for the HLT and use the 3 teir setup.
You could always cut it down to a two or one teir when the funds open up for the other system.

if I buy a cheap 7 gallon turkey fryer, how am I gonna use that as an HLT? Just pick up and dump the hot water? And I dont think that will be enough for 10 gallon batches.

The way it stands now, I can spend $130 on a pump.... If I keep my 2 igloo coolers, I can make one the HLT, but then I gotta spend money on a valve for that(and I want to go stainless). And I don't see the point in buying a pump just to pump hot water to the HLT. So, if I want to do 10 gallon batches, I figured buying the pump and doing the recirculation method would get me there the cheapest/fastest.

Ok, nevermind....

I think I am just going to get 2 Rubbermaid type round coolers. I will get 3 Stainless Ball valves setups(1 for kettle, 1 for each cooler). THen I will just heat all the water in the kettle and transfer via the ball valve to the mash tun, then HLT. I want the Round coolers because the top screws on. The igloo coolers I have now dont screw on, and I don't want to lift 9.5 gallons of 180 degree water to head level with a flippy top!!!

I would go with a 10 gallon cooler at a minimum if you want to make 10 gallon batches. My system is very simple. I use a calibrated bucket to move mash & sparge water to the MLT cooler which then drains into the kettle which drains into bucket fermenters. Nothing fancy, just a table & cinder blocks. I move water 3.5 gallons at a time.

Thanks EdWort.

I currently have 2 50QT Ice Cube coolers, that I was going to convert. I wanted the ability to fly sparge. I'm mainly worried now about lifting all that water above my head when I start to sparge(Which is why i would like the round coolers with the screw on lids). And I only have 1 burner.

I dont know, we'll see...I will line everything up in my garage to see how tall it really is, then go from there. I guess I can transfer a few buckets at a time up to the HLT.

bigben said:

Thanks EdWort.

I currently have 2 50QT Ice Cube coolers, that I was going to convert. I wanted the ability to fly sparge. I'm mainly worried now about lifting all that water above my head when I start to sparge(Which is why i would like the round coolers with the screw on lids). And I only have 1 burner.

I dont know, we'll see...I will line everything up in my garage to see how tall it really is, then go from there. I guess I can transfer a few buckets at a time up to the HLT.

Click to expand...

This is why I said to get a cheap turkey fryer to use as a HLT and go with the 3 teir sytem.

This is mine.


What you are looking at is a 3 teir cart that I built for about $100. On the high end is my HLT. It's a or was a cheap 7 gallon turkey fryer. I messed up drilling the hole for the vavle and then baught a 7 gallon stainless kettle to replace it. The hot water drains using gravity to my MLT. The MLT is a 20 gallon cooler with a copper manifold that I built in it. The wort drains out of the MLT using gravity into my 15 gallon kettle. Then the wort drains from the kettle using gravity thru my CFC and into the fermenter.
I don't lift water at all. When that pic was taken I was using the latter to fill the HLT. Now I piped water lines up to the HLT and I can fill it from the ground.

You can do the same thing without the cart.
Take the HLT and burner and set it up on something so you can drain into the MLT and so on.
Like EdWort shows, you don't need a big azz cart to do that same thing. It just makes it easier. Or at least it does for me.

FSR402 said:

Like EdWort shows, you don't need a big azz cart to do that same thing. It just makes it easier. Or at least it does for me.

Click to expand...

Just a couple of step ladders.

What you don't see is the roof over my brew system. At 6'4", I'm always ducking and have a few scars to show when I didn't

FSR402 said:

This is why I said to get a cheap turkey fryer to use as a HLT and go with the 3 teir sytem.

This is mine.

What you are looking at is a 3 teir cart that I built for about $100. On the high end is my HLT. It's a or was a cheap 7 gallon turkey fryer. I messed up drilling the hole for the vavle and then baught a 7 gallon stainless kettle to replace it. The hot water drains using gravity to my MLT. The MLT is a 20 gallon cooler with a copper manifold that I built in it. The wort drains out of the MLT using gravity into my 15 gallon kettle. Then the wort drains from the kettle using gravity thru my CFC and into the fermenter.
I don't lift water at all. When that pic was taken I was using the latter to fill the HLT. Now I piped water lines up to the HLT and I can fill it from the ground.

You can do the same thing without the cart.
Take the HLT and burner and set it up on something so you can drain into the MLT and so on.
Like EdWort shows, you don't need a big azz cart to do that same thing. It just makes it easier. Or at least it does for me.

Click to expand...

Can you do 10 gallon batches though, with a 7 gallon HLT?

Also, I want the ability to brew in my garage, and with the door open, height is an issue. It's only half of a one car garage(the other half is converted to an office). So, that's why I was thinking about the pump and recirculation theory.

I guess everyone will just tell me to do like they did. But that's not what Im after. I was kinda just trying to get feedback of the options I proposed. So is everyone basically saying that the recirculation method is stupid, because no one seems to think its worth doing even though it will only cost me about $40 more than going with a 3-tier setup.

bigben said:

Can you do 10 gallon batches though, with a 7 gallon HLT?

Click to expand...

Up until recently I had a 7 gal HLT. I would do 10 gal batches all the time, just had to make sure that any water addition was less than 7 gal. I batch sparge so it wasn't really that big of a deal, I just had to plan accordingly. Also it was just recently that I upgraded to having a bulkhead and valve on my HLT, I used to just use a 1 gal pitcher to move liquid around

heh, yea. I also want to fly sparge. I'm currently batch sparging and I just want to be able to fly sparge.

All I do is 12 gal batches unless it's a beer that has a SG over 1.070. Then I have to go to a 5 gal batch due to the boil size. My system is limited by the 15 gal kettle.
Only once did I not have enough room in the HLT for all the sparge water. But I too batch sparge (can't see spending another 40 minutes to do tha same thing) and I do two sparges. So I filled the HLT as high as I could get it, added my first sparge to the MLT then added what little water I needed more in the HLT and quickly heated it up the few * that it had dropped.

You seem to really be locked onto the pump and recirculation. So I don't think anything that any of us say is going to change your mind. So if that's what you want then do it.

Have you got it all figured out? No matter what way you do it, it's not going to be all that easy with only one burner. It can be done, but for another $40, it can be so much better.


Oh, and in the winter, I brew with my rig in the garage.

Ok, hmmm, I guess we'll see. How long does it take to heat up that extra water to sparge temps?

bigben said:

Ok, hmmm, I guess we'll see. How long does it take to heat up that extra water to sparge temps?

Click to expand...

I only needed like 2 or 3 qt's so it took maybe 5 minutes.

bigben said:

heh, yea. I also want to fly sparge. I'm currently batch sparging and I just want to be able to fly sparge.

Click to expand...

Why do you want to fly sparge? Just have a bunch of extra time you don't know what to do with??

Sean said:

Why do you want to fly sparge? Just have a bunch of extra time you don't know what to do with??

Click to expand...

Yea, that's exactly the reason. Fly sparging must be just a huge waste of time. No wonder no one does it

FSR402 said:

I only needed like 2 or 3 qt's so it took maybe 5 minutes.

Click to expand...

Not to keep asking annoying questions, but how much water do you use to mash? Using some online calculators that I've always usedand are accurate) it seems that I'd have to have over 9 gallon of sparge water if I mashed at 1.25 qts per pound of grain for 25 pounds.

bigben said:

Not to keep asking annoying questions, but how much water do you use to mash? Using some online calculators that I've always usedand are accurate) it seems that I'd have to have over 9 gallon of sparge water if I mashed at 1.25 qts per pound of grain for 25 pounds.

Click to expand...

Here is my mash for the Red Dragon IPA
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 25.75 lb
60 min Mash In Add 28.84 qt of water at 178.8 F 152.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 14.94 qt of water at 211.4 F 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 6.11 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F

That is at 1.12qt/pound


And my house pale

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 21.00 lb
60 min Mash In Add 26.25 qt of water at 177.8 F 152.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 13.23 qt of water at 211.9 F 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 5.35 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F

That's at 1.25qt/pound


The trick I quess is that I always do a mashout.

FSR402 said:

Here is my mash for the Red Dragon IPA
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 25.75 lb
60 min Mash In Add 28.84 qt of water at 178.8 F 152.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 14.94 qt of water at 211.4 F 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 6.11 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F

That is at 1.12qt/pound


And my house pale

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 21.00 lb
60 min Mash In Add 26.25 qt of water at 177.8 F 152.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 13.23 qt of water at 211.9 F 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 5.35 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F

That's at 1.25qt/pound


The trick I quess is that I always do a mashout.

Click to expand...

Yea, the mashout...ok, makes a lot more sense now.

Thanks a lot for all the info...I may go this route then.!!

bigben said:

Yea, the mashout...ok, makes a lot more sense now.

Thanks a lot for all the info...I may go this route then.!!

Click to expand...

Remeber, what ever you do now can change later. Going the free route of gravity now and changing to a pump later would work well. It will give you time to get all the other stuff down first.
Good luck with what ever you select.

Hey, if I get a turkey fryer that comes with a burner like this...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009JXYQ4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Can I swap the burner out with the one in my SP10? Since the SP10 is th ehigh pressure one?

Im thinking of this because if I can get this burner with a turkey fryer set, then I can swap the burner out and use this stand for my keggle, cuz it doesn't fit on the SP10 without some modifications. And I can use the weaker burner on the HLT.

bigben said:

Hey, if I get a turkey fryer that comes with a burner like this...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009JXYQ4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Can I swap the burner out with the one in my SP10? Since the SP10 is th ehigh pressure one?

Im thinking of this because if I can get this burner with a turkey fryer set, then I can swap the burner out and use this stand for my keggle, cuz it doesn't fit on the SP10 without some modifications. And I can use the weaker burner on the HLT.

Click to expand...

If you can mod the stand I don't see why it would not work.

Oh and that is the same stand burner I use and it works great as it is.

EdWort said:

Just a couple of step ladders.

What you don't see is the roof over my brew system. At 6'4", I'm always ducking and have a few scars to show when I didn't

Click to expand...

I am sure it didnt have anything to do with the beer consumption while brewing :cross: