Imperial IPA - First Wort Hopped Only ?

It's been on my mind to make an IIPA exclusively first wort hopped with Centennial. Good idea or bad idea?

[3.5 oz of Cenntennial gives 102 IBUs (calculated as 60 min boil) or 60 IBUs (calculated as 20 min addition) -- depending on the school of thought you come from.]

A IIPA should have pungent hop aroma. This won't. So no I wouldn't do it.

Maybe only FWH and Dry Hop it?

ScottyC said:

It's been on my mind to make an IIPA exclusively first wort hopped with Centennial. Good idea or bad idea?

[3.5 oz of Cenntennial gives 102 IBUs (calculated as 60 min boil) or 60 IBUs (calculated as 20 min addition) -- depending on the school of thought you come from.]

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My understanding of FWH is that it contributes to and smoothes out the flavor of the regular late hope additions (meaning 30-0 min additions).

I don't think it has an effect on bittering, and won't bitter a beer. I don't think it adds much flavor of its own, other than enhancing the "regular" flavor addition.

I don't think it will work! Then again, I might have missed something...

Of course FWH has an effect on bittering, people act like the hops magically disappear during the boil. They're in there the entire time.

Overall, what makes a great IIPA to me is tons of bitterness PLUS tons of aroma. You won't get that with FHW which just adds some to the flavor/aroma in addition to bittering. I'd def. dry hop as well as add a 15 minute flavor addition.

A good IIPA will be judged on the firmness of the hop flavor and the depth of the hop aroma. You have to have multiple and late hop additions to get this.

My Tits-Up IIPA get's great marks for the hop characteristics. Here's that hopping schedule if it helps:

1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12.20%] (FWH)
1.00 oz Nugget [11.50%] (45 min)
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50%] (30 min)
1.25 oz Cascade [6.10%] (15 min)
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50%] (10 min)
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (10 min)
1.00 oz Crystal [3.50%] (10 min)

1.00 oz Summit [16.50%] (Dry Hop 14 days)
1.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (Dry Hop 14 days)
1.25 oz Cascade [6.10%] (Dry Hop 14 days)
1.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (Dry Hop 14 days)

DrinkNoH2O said:

Of course FWH has an effect on bittering, people act like the hops magically disappear during the boil. They're in there the entire time.

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My understanding what that the acids in the hops, being in the wort at a cooler temp than boiling, and for a longer period of time, are processed differently and do not add bitterness. I've also heard it recommended that if you are going to do a FWH, add 1/3 of the finishing hops and turn them into FWH instead. The implication was the FWH has an effect on the finish (flavor and aroma), so you don't need as many hops there.

There was never any mention of adjusting the bittering hops when you FWH, implying the bittering was unaffected.

This was told to me by a brew-pub owner, but who knows! Maybe he had something to learn as well.

edit: Or...maybe I misunderstood something.

Thanks for the recommendations. And thanks BierMuncher for sharing the hop schedule.

My thinking was that by loading up on the FWH, it would be like doing a significant late addition to give a full hop flavor, but also provide a rounded-off bitterness. Dry hopping with a couple ounces is probably a good idea to reinforce the aroma. I dunno, thought it could be cool to make an IIPA with one hop, two additions.

GaryJohn said:

My understanding of FWH is that it contributes to and smoothes out the flavor of the regular late hope additions (meaning 30-0 min additions).

I don't think it has an effect on bittering, and won't bitter a beer. I don't think it adds much flavor of its own, other than enhancing the "regular" flavor addition.

I don't think it will work! Then again, I might have missed something...

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You are definitely missing something. The hops are in the kettle for the entire boil. Of course it will bitter the beer. It may tone down the harshness of the hop but will certainly bitter the beer. It will also add some flavor. Kinda kills two birds with one stone. I do it for most of my IPA's. But I'm also using high alpha hops like Chinook, Warrior, etc. It can work for a IIPA but definitely add some more hops at 20 minutes and less. Then dry hop the snot out of it!

GaryJohn said:

My understanding what that the acids in the hops, being in the wort at a cooler temp than boiling, and for a longer period of time, are processed differently and do not add bitterness. I've also heard it recommended that if you are going to do a FWH, add 1/3 of the finishing hops and turn them into FWH instead. The implication was the FWH has an effect on the finish (flavor and aroma), so you don't need as many hops there.

There was never any mention of adjusting the bittering hops when you FWH, implying the bittering was unaffected.

This was told to me by a brew-pub owner, but who knows! Maybe he had something to learn as well.

edit: Or...maybe I misunderstood something.

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No, that's not correct. There is some debate on the actual IBUs contributed by FWH- 20% more? 30% less? etc, but there is a definite bitterness contribution. I've heard that "FWH replaces 20 minute hops" quoted quite a bit. Well, try it! FWH one beer, and use 20 minute hops in one beer. Guess which one is bitter? Of course, it's the one with the hops in it for the duration of the boil.

I talked to James Spencer (of Basic Brewing Radio) about this and he agreed that IBU testing on FWH beers was a good idea. We'll see if that's something we do in the near future.

But........my experience tells me that you get plenty of bittering out of a FWH addition, although it may be perceived as a "smoother" bitterness.

I Have also read that a FWH addition is similar to a late hop addition. But without the taste/aroma obviously. I would suggest you try it and report back! Me, I like my IPAs and hops in general - not just bitterness - to try it but I'd love to get some info on a FWH only hop forward beer. Do it man - for posterity of not for curiosity!!!

In my latest FWH ale, the difference between the theoretical "equals a 20 minute addition" and its actual 90 minute boil is like 35 vs 48 IBUs. It's a very bitter beer.

stevedasleeve said:

I Have also read that a FWH addition is similar to a late hop addition. But without the taste/aroma obviously. I would suggest you try it and report back! Me, I like my IPAs and hops in general - not just bitterness - to try it but I'd love to get some info on a FWH only hop forward beer. Do it man - for posterity of not for curiosity!!!

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That settles, it then! I'll make it. How about "Bicentennial IIPA" -- from two big additions of Centennial (FWH and Dry Hop)?

Bicentennila IIPA sounds great. Brew it and report back man! I am getting intrigued myself so after I restock - I have about 25 gallons to brew the next couple of weeks so I don't run out - I'll try something similar, maybe with a different hop.

Ølbart;2411559 said:

In my latest FWH ale, the difference between the theoretical "equals a 20 minute addition" and its actual 90 minute boil is like 35 vs 48 IBUs. It's a very bitter beer.

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Very interested to hear more about this.

Ølbart;2411559 said:

In my latest FWH ale, the difference between the theoretical "equals a 20 minute addition" and its actual 90 minute boil is like 35 vs 48 IBUs. It's a very bitter beer.

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I've found the same thing when I have FWH'd. It's a pretty significant bitterness, and I found that I really don't care for it.

Michael Tonsmeire did a very similar thing, but also hopped at mash, sparge, and flameout.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2008/04/what-hop-shortage.html

I love FWH. I've used it a few times in several beers and I find it very affective at adding an interesting bitterness that tastes as if it "binds" (for lack of a better term) to with the beer a bit more than even 60 or 90 minute additions.

With that said, I think the FWH is a great idea, but you NEED to dry hop this thing. The combination would be solid, IMO.