Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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CidahMastah said:
I would leave it in your primary no less than 7 days; but I personally would leave it in there 2-3 weeks. This will give it time to ferment and sediment to settle out better (IMO).

According to the recipe Brandon says it should be drinkable in 5 weeks from start of fermentation. This works out perfectly for you if you are bottling with priming sugar. (3 weeks in primary, 2 weeks getting carbed in bottles)
Click to expand...
Is fermentation fully done in 2-3 weeks? If not, how do you prevent bottle bombs when you charge the bottles for carbing? How are the bottles stored after carbing? Cold crashed and stored cold afterwards? Can they be stored warm, or will that create the bottle bombs that worry me so much?
 
I started a batch of this stuff this morning. I haven't even tasted it yet but I already like it because it was so easy to make!
 
Buktwild said:
I've started a batch that will be just under two gallons- I'm leaving a couple inches at the top of a 2 gallon fermenting bucket. I'll be setting up with a 3/8" hose for a blow off, holding the airlock until the bubbling volcano stage has passed.
FWIW,I got all my supplies at Wine Barley Hops Homebrewing on Bustleton Pike - the guy in there was a lot of help and he does seem to have a good selection in inventory.

1 lb Bries Light Golden
1/2 lb Muntons Crystal Malt 60L
1/4 oz Vanguard Pellet 5%
1/2 gallon of water

1 pkg Nottingham

I did pay for a muslin bag but in chatting it up with the store owner, we both managed to NOT get it in the bucket with the rest of my purchases. I'm gonna strain the bulk with a steel colander and hope for the best.

The Worst is cooling now- 122 deg at the last check of the thermometer. I have it outside with the lid on it, setting on a concrete step. This is the most time consuming part of the process.
Prepping yeast in 8 oz water. At this point I've gotten too much of a head start.
I did buy a hydrometer and will post a reading taken before the pitch.

Edit: Reading before yeast 1.062
Edit: 8 hours later and my blow off is slowing bubbling. Seems to be on track. /thumbsup
Edit: 17 hours and my 3/8" blow hose is popping a bubble every second.
The temp varies from 60-65 depending house thermostat setting. Therm read 59 on the floor with stat at 62 overnight. Primary is about 24" off the floor.
Click to expand...
On only the third day my bubble output has slowed way down. In the first 48 hours it was gurgling out the blow hose pretty strongly. But I noticed last night it was off the pace and now today I've switched from the hose to a S-type and it's putting out a bubble every few seconds. Definitely not the metronome it had been.

Is this within the range for Normal or is mine slowing down early? The temp has dropped to 59 a couple times from 2 a.m. to 7 a.m. but mostly it's been between 62 and 68.
 
FWIW the scent from the airlock is not so strong or tangy as it was yesterday.. It's a mellower more pleasant smell. Definitely a green apple hue to the odor.

Beside this bucket fermenter I have a 1 gallon jailhouse batch with Fleishman's baking yeast and 1 c of granulated sugar. This one smells more yellow and sulphur like. It was started 24 hours before the Graff and is still venting more strongly than the Graff is.



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/first-batch-fermentation-stall-questions-106432/index2.html
I found this thread by searching "Stalled Batch"... oughta be a sticky!!
 
Just hooked myself up with an all grain version of this.

10lbs MO
12oz c 80
8 oz carafoam

Mashed at 155, mashed out at 168. Collected 3.5 gallons of wort which was boiled for 30 min with nelson sauvin. Mixed 3 gallons of wort with 4 gallons of AJ and innoculayed with 2 packets of rehydrated Notty. After 24 hours, it soundec like a machine gun. After 48 hours now, its still going strong but slowing. I wouldnt be surprised if its done in another 24 hours. Really looking forward to this bad boy
 
Good Question on the Gravity. I don't remember how long my first batch push CO2 out the airlock, but my second batch has been bubbling for a full week now. I was hoping to bottle it this coming Saturday. If it doesn't calm down today and start to clear up I might leave it for another week letting it go the full three I normally let beer sit. I pitched Notty on it both times. Normally Notty in beer only runs for 4 days for me and slows to a crawl. I really don't want to wait 5 more weeks to drink this, 4 would be better.
 
I've now made this both as listed in the op, and all-grain with fresh pressed cider. Both batches turned out great, and have received lots of compliments, but... I've got to say that the next time I make it I'm going back to the cheapo version with DME, steeping grains, and wally-mart apple juice.

My all-grain version used 4oz c-60 and 4oz c120, so that definitely changed the overall profile. In general, though, I've just found the simpler original version more "clean" and drinkable. The cider version also ended up with a large clump of apple gunk in bottom of each bottle, so youhave to be pretty careful when pouring, unless you want some extra fiber with your graff.

here's a photo of the label I made for the second batch - http://www.flickr.com/photos/75742922@N00/5378299037/

I'll have to make another batch soon, to have "on tap" for the spring / summer.
 
Anyone looking for a less tart and hoochy version of this?
The first one I did of this I did by the book... But it was too tart.

The next batch I made I used the following changes and the result is a much less tart cider and much smoother with a balance sweet - tart ratio.

[1] I changed the 2lb of Light DME to --> 1.75lb Light DME and 0.75 Amber DME
[2] Upped the grains to 1/2lb Crystal (and used 120L) and 1/2 Honey Malt and 2oz Torrified Wheat
[3] 1/2lb Malto Dextrine
[4] 1lb Lactose Sugar

Stater at ~1.077 and finished at 1.018 for a much better mouth feel and sweetness.

J
 
There's few things in this world I don't tolerate. However, lactose is one of them.

That said I'm thinking my second batch will look something like yours.
 
I am sure you could leave out the lactose. The gravity would be lower and it would have a thinner mouth feel and less sweetness... I would guess it would still be good!
 
jalgayer said:
Anyone looking for a less tart and hoochy version of this?
The first one I did of this I did by the book... But it was too tart.

The next batch I made I used the following changes and the result is a much less tart cider and much smoother with a balance sweet - tart ratio.

[1] I changed the 2lb of Light DME to --> 1.75lb Light DME and 0.75 Amber DME
[2] Upped the grains to 1/2lb Crystal (and used 120L) and 1/2 Honey Malt and 2oz Torrified Wheat
[3] 1/2lb Malto Dextrine
[4] 1lb Lactose Sugar

Stater at ~1.077 and finished at 1.018 for a much better mouth feel and sweetness.

J
Click to expand...
Sounds interesting ... I want to try it.

But a few questions:

1. If following the recipe for the standard brew, at what point in time do you add the dextrine and sugar? I assume it would be same time you add DME, before the 30 min boil?

2. What do these extra sugars do to your fermentation time? Still about 2 weeks?

3. Have you calc'd alcohol content in this brew?

4. What yeast are you using? Nottingham, Safale 05, or what??

Thanks, in advance, for any clafifications you care to make.
 
Bottled my first batch of Graff tonight...
drier and more tart than I expected. Poured one for wifey and she almost liked it. Added a couple ounces of apple juice to glass and this stuff is very good (even before carbonation). Wife agrees.
Looking forward to trying this stuff after a couple weeks in bottle.
Stats for this batch:
1.059 OG
1.009 FG
ALC% 6.5
Followed the original recipe to achieve this. Will likely make adjustments to next brew.
 
MikeyC99 said:
Sounds interesting ... I want to try it.

But a few questions:

1. If following the recipe for the standard brew, at what point in time do you add the dextrine and sugar? I assume it would be same time you add DME, before the 30 min boil?

Yep. I added both right with the DME. You could add em late as well, but no real reason to.


2. What do these extra sugars do to your fermentation time? Still about 2 weeks?

No change. Down to FG in a little over a week. I let it sit a bit longer to clear.


3. Have you calc'd alcohol content in this brew?

Nope. But you can by just looking at original recipe. Id say around 7.5%


4. What yeast are you using? Nottingham, Safale 05, or what??

Both. I had one pack of each. Rehydrated them together and each batch got about 1/2 of the mix. Yeast not super important here. Just pick a neutral yeast. And pick one that has the attenuation you would like

Thanks, in advance, for any clafifications you care to make.
Click to expand...

no problem. If you need more advice just fire away
 
OK, I just bottled my first batch of Graff. In fact, it was the first bottling of anything for me, and I am hoping I did it right. Here is what I did:

3 gallons of graff, completely fermented with SG of 1.0

Dissolved 6 oz of corn sugar in 2 cups of water and added to bottling bucket, over which I racked the 3 gallons of graff (less the dregs)

Bottled about 30 12 oz bottles of the brew.

Now sitting in warm-ish part of house (around 70 degrees), carbing up ... I hope.

Questions:

1. I hear 3 weeks is about what it takes to carb up. Right?
2. Do I start opening bottles around 3 weeks and see if they are carbed? If not, just give it more time?
3. What if it is too carbed? What is the danger of my getting bottle bombs? How do I prevent that from happening?
4. Does anyone out there ever pasteurize their graff to stop carbing after a certain point?
5. If you dont want to store all the bottles in the frig, is it ok to keep at room temp, until time for serving when they go into the frig?
6. Did I use enough carbing sugar with 6 oz? I read 3/4 cup for 5 gallon batch, which is 12 oz, or 2.4 oz per gallon x 3 gallons = 7.2 oz, so I backed off just a tad to error on side of caution. Think 6 oz was enough?
7. How will I know if it is carbing up? Is there something to look for?

Sorry for being such a newbie ... but any help would be appreciated.
 
CA-LT1 said:
Mikeysab: Wow, that's a lot of grain, what was your SG?
Click to expand...

My gravity was 1.075 for 6 gallons. I checked on this on the 7 day mark and it was 1.010, and possibly the foulest thing ive drank in many years. It tasted like someone melted a rubber ball and put it in my hydro jar. It reminded me very much of my first cider, which i used about 6 cans of AJ concentrate and juice for. That cider is great now, after over a year.

This graff is what i should give jppeople that ask "Is my beer ruined, the hydro sample doesnt tast like i thought it would". Im gonna let it sit for about 3 months, then bottle it. Hopefully it will be ready in less than a year.
 
Brewed 5 gallons of this on 1/28. OG was 1.06 at around 75 degrees. It has now fermented down to 1.004. I'll check FG again over the next few days to make sure it's ready to bottle, but I'm guessing it's about ready to bottle.

I did a taste test and it tasted exactly like white wine with some apple tones to it. I mean it tastes exactly like wine, very tart and tastes a bit of alcohol. I know it's still super green (about 16 days in), but I was wondering if anyone else has come across this.

.5lbs Crystal 55l and 1oz torrified wheat steeped at 155 for 30 min. Sparged in .25 gallons at 170.
.5oz Cascade boiled in for 40 min.
1lb of Amber DME.
1lb of Light DME.
4 gallons of Whole Foods brand organic apple juice.
Pitched 2 packets of dry Nottingham at ~70 degrees.
 
I thought I'd chime in here. After trying a batch of graff, I thought I'd try the opposite. I've currently got a belgian blonde in primary that used apple syrup (boiled down cider) instead of candi sugar. As it went into the carboy it has a pleasant apple taste that went well with the malts. It'll be interesting to see how it ends up after fermentation.
 
Bottled mine this past Wednesday, used 3/4 cup corn sugar. Being a nerd I cracked one open on Friday night. Of course it wasn't fully carbonated, but it actually tasted good, not green at all. I've got high hopes for this one! :ban:
 
Bottling tomorrow. Tried some Ephemere and loved it, I don't think mine will have the bite (.25 oz Czech Saaz), but I am really looking forward to it.
 
I'm going with Cascade hops and simpson's Med Crystal. Any thoughts on that? First time making anything in the cider realm.
 
Making a half batch of this stuff today. In reality I should make a full batch, cause this stuff is awesome. I let a couple of 22oz bottles chill in the fridge for about 3 months after bottling and let me tell you.... champagne-ish cider. My batch really evolved over the course of drinking it. First, it was a very apple tasting cider with a tiny hop note. Second, a month after 3 week wait period it was a truly great cider. Third, the three month since ready to drink product was almost a champagne. Truly magnificent.

My girlfriend's parents have two bottles of my Graff hanging around in their fridge still, I think I'm repossessing them this week to try them again. And this half batch I'm cooking up now will be left to vintage for a certain period. Don't get me wrong it is superb after 3 weeks, but it really gets spectacular after a longer wait.
 
This was my first partial mash and only my second time brewing, so I hope I didn't get too adventurous. Went with standard store brand AJ without preservatives, Safale 05, 120L Crystal, & I dropped 0.5 oz of Citra leaf hops with 0.3 oz of bitter orange peel & 0.3 oz of lemon peel at the start of the boil. I can't wait to try this. It smelled amazing.
 
I've read a lot about priming for bottling without many reported results. Does anyone have a tried & true priming method for a 5 gallon batch of graff? Should I treat it like beer? I'm leaving it in the primary for at least 2 weeks.
 
Fenderdaw said:
I've read a lot about priming for bottling without many reported results. Does anyone have a tried & true priming method for a 5 gallon batch of graff? Should I treat it like beer? I'm leaving it in the primary for at least 2 weeks.
Click to expand...

Treat it like beer... somewhere between 4 1/2 and 5 oz of corn sugar per 5 gallons has worked for me...
 
Well, I made up a batch of this last night. I actually joined these forums just to give my input. I really like the looks of it thus far. I used 4 gallons of Martinelli's 100% Apple Juice with no preservatives. I ended up with an SG of 1.071. I think that it is higher than normal because I used Martinelli's over Tree Top or something similar. I followed the Recipe to the T except for the Torrified Wheat (not too worried about head retention). I used Liberty hops which are at a 4.5% AA (Mild and clean aroma, slightly spicy character.) I didn't do anything to treat the Martinelli's before adding it into the fermentor, but I don't forsee that as a problem. I already have airlock activity after 13 hours. I am very excited about this one. Oh, I used Safale-05
 
Just put a batch of this up tonight. I had a 6.5 gal carboy available, so I threw in an extra gal of AJ. Leaving town in a couple of days for two weeks. Can't wait to come home to this!
 
I fermented, bottled, and drank a 4gallon batch - all within' 3 weeks. Horrible self control.

I have 3 bottles left, lol.
 
jalgayer said:
Anyone looking for a less tart and hoochy version of this?
The first one I did of this I did by the book... But it was too tart.

The next batch I made I used the following changes and the result is a much less tart cider and much smoother with a balance sweet - tart ratio.

[1] I changed the 2lb of Light DME to --> 1.75lb Light DME and 0.75 Amber DME
[2] Upped the grains to 1/2lb Crystal (and used 120L) and 1/2 Honey Malt and 2oz Torrified Wheat
[3] 1/2lb Malto Dextrine
[4] 1lb Lactose Sugar

Stater at ~1.077 and finished at 1.018 for a much better mouth feel and sweetness.

J
Click to expand...
OK, off the wall idea, but what do you think would happen if you made this recipe with 50% apple and 50% pineapple juice? I made some traditional hard cider with this 50/50 mixture and it turned out great. See any reason why I would NOT want to give this a try?
 
Hey fellow Mikey,

I would just make sure the pineapple juice doesn't have any preservatives in it, they tend to harm/kill brewing yeast.

Glad to hear your batch turned out well, that's the best part about this hobby, you can pretty much do whatever the heck you want.. if it turns out great, you can share it with the awesome people on this board and spread the joy. If it turns out terrible, you can destroy all evidence!
 
Brewing up a batch of this right now. Can't wait to see how its going to come out. My wife and I took a trip last weekend to Asheville NC and she fell in love with the Green Man cider. This ought to score some major points.
 
I brewed this a few days ago. I messed up because I added just 0.25 oz of Cascade instead of 0.50 oz. I used hop plugs for the first time and thought the plug weighed 1 oz, so I used only half. Ah well, I guess I'll make a "hop tea" with the remaining 0.25 oz Cascade and add it to the carboy.
 
Just finished my last bottle of this that I bottled back in October. Damn was it tasty! Think I might get another batch of this going soon.
 

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