Silicone tubing for transfer hoses

I replace my vinyl racking hoses regularly, as do most people I think, and got thinking that maybe I should switch to silicone hoses instead. There are two big advantages that I see. First, that stuff is REALLY flexible and a pleasure to work with. Second, it can withstand heat up to 500F, so one could actually sterilize it in boiling water, or even autoclave it in a pressure cooker every now and then. Basically, it eliminates the fear of picking up an infection in a hose that can't be perfectly cleaned/sanitized. So despite the high cost, silicone tubing should last a guy for years and years and years, and actually be cheaper in the long run.

Does anyone do this? (Just really curious.)

I use silicone tubing all the time. It is great stuff. It's nice to know I can even take it into work and sterilize it in one of our autoclaves if I ever get too worried about nasties being in it. That said I've been using the same tubes for a year now and never had a problem. They are just a little browner now since I use iodophor for a sanitizer.

Silicone doesn't have a memory like vinyl hose either...no more fighting a self-coiling racking hose

malkore said:

Silicone doesn't have a memory like vinyl hose either...no more fighting a self-coiling racking hose

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You may have just sold me on the expense right there! I never really considered that aspect of those hoses but now that you point it out it annoys me already!

Okay, maybe a dumb question, but where do you buy food grade silicone hoses?

Beer, Beer, and More Beer is where I got all mine...

Or mcmaster.com

Bobby_M said:

Or mcmaster.com

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Yeah, but unless I'm looking at the wrong thing, they want $7.30/f?!?

*EDIT** Strike that - found some for $1.29~$174/f on mcmaster.com - Part Number: 51135K84

Looks like the same stuff...

John Beere said:

Yeah, but unless I'm looking at the wrong thing, they want $7.30/f?!?

*EDIT** Strike that - found some for $1.29~$174/f on mcmaster.com - Part Number: 51135K84

Looks like the same stuff...

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Cool! Thanks.

John Beere said:

*EDIT** Strike that - found some for $1.29~$174/f on mcmaster.com - Part Number: 51135K84

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The part number you gave was for the "firm" variety. Looking at the "shore" hardness ratings doesn't tell me much - it seems to me you'd want the "soft" tubing but I'm not sure. Anyone care to comment?

"comes in your choice of opaque black, opaque red, semi-clear blue, or semi-clear white." Just in case you need to color-code your brewery

I think I'll have to pick some of that up next time I order from mcmaster... and by that I mean "find an excuse to order from mcmaster ASAP"

I guess my biggest questions are, does stuff stick to it easily? Does it stain easily? Is it affected by typical brewing chemicals (oxyclean, starsan, iodophor, bleach, PBW, BLC, etc)? I assume that it's pretty resistant/non-staining/etc, but I wanted to be sure. Though the idea of being able to just chuck it in some boiling water to clean/sanitize it is very appealing, it'd be even better if it resisted caked-on gunk in the first place. When I replace vinyl tubing it's because it's stained or has some scum inside that won't come out with hot water rinses, and running oxiclean through it tends to make the tubing cloudy which doesn't look great either.

malkore said:

Silicone doesn't have a memory like vinyl hose either...no more fighting a self-coiling racking hose

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Yep, I got rid of all my vinyl hoses and use the silicone hose exclusivily. They hang down into my kegs without coiling up and the push on spigots & barbs very easy. Good stuff.

Yep! If someone stole all my silicone, I just wouldn't brew!

I got mine at Morebeer also...

http://morebeer.com/view_product/17608/

One thing to note... This tubing is NOT rated for house pressure. It will burst. I have never had an issue with that since I only run my system with the March pumps...

Good stuff!

Funkenjaeger said:

I guess my biggest questions are, does stuff stick to it easily? Does it stain easily? Is it affected by typical brewing chemicals (oxyclean, starsan, iodophor, bleach, PBW, BLC, etc)? I assume that it's pretty resistant/non-staining/etc, but I wanted to be sure. Though the idea of being able to just chuck it in some boiling water to clean/sanitize it is very appealing, it'd be even better if it resisted caked-on gunk in the first place. When I replace vinyl tubing it's because it's stained or has some scum inside that won't come out with hot water rinses, and running oxiclean through it tends to make the tubing cloudy which doesn't look great either.

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Anyone have any comments on my earlier questions? I'm definitely looking at 1/2" silicone tubing in the event that I get a march pump, since it's ideal for high temperatures, but I'm still debating whether I should replace my regular racking tubing with it as well, for convenience rather than necessity.

I haven't used silicone for racking much, but I do use it for a couple things (including steam mashing). To me it appears to stain a bit easier than vinyl tubing, but it cleans up as easily. Plus, since you can boil/autoclave it regularly, you can afford to be a little harder on it than you would vinyl, which is basically worthless once scratched up.

It should stand up to most cleaners the way that vinyl would, but honestly I have only ever had to use oxyclean to clean it (I would also use Star San if it were a racking hose).

Based on the opinions here, I am definitely going to throw out my plastic racking cane and vinyl hoses. I already got a SS cane and I am going to buy a whack of silicone tubing and rely on that for years to come.

Where are you getting your tubing?

I guess it will have to come across the line. The big LHBS online stores sell it, and so does McMaster-Carr. If I can think of a few other things to purchase, I will probably jest get a bunch of it from MC.

Have you ordered from them before? Just curious on the shipping situation.

Yes, and shipping can be expensive. But it is mind-boggling fast! If you airship before noon, it will be at your door the next day. Seriously.

Ground shipping is MUCH cheaper. But the weird part of MC is that if you go online to order, it doesn't give you a shipping quote to Canada. So you have to be careful, especially with oversized items that cost them a lot to ship.

FlyGuy said:

I guess it will have to come across the line. The big LHBS online stores sell it, and so does McMaster-Carr. If I can think of a few other things to purchase, I will probably jest get a bunch of it from MC.

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Try a local plumbing wholesaler before you order anything.

bradsul said:

Try a local plumbing wholesaler before you order anything.

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Yes, good suggestion. I should have mentioned that I looked locally when I built my steam injection system, and even with shipping and exchange, MC was still cheaper than a couple of the local shops that sell it. However, YMMV and I agree you should check locally first (and don't bother with Home Depot, Rona, Crappy Tire, etc. -- they won't even understand what you are talking about).

Hey FlyGuy, what about this stuff? This stuff should hold up in a steam injection system hooked to the pressure canner and the mash tun, right? They have great quick disconnects too. I use these on my hot-side all the time and love them. I never thought about using them for cold side too, but being autoclave-able sounds like a great thing to me and the silicone hose being braided should hold up to counter pressure keg filling pressures.

Is that $9/ft?!?! I'm not going to pay $100 for hoses on my stand. I'll stick to the braided vinyl hoses.

Looks good, but whoa that ain't cheap stuff. Honestly though, I haven't had any problem with the unreinforced line for both steam injection and pumping. If you could afford it, this stuff is nice -- but perhaps somewhat unnecessary.

I bought enough hose for my mash system, my recirc pump, plus about 25 feet of silicone for cold-side tranfers, and the whole lot was less than $40. Considering that it should last a lifetime, it will be cheaper than vinyl in the long run.

Wow, I thought it was for 10'. That is really expensive. I bought silicone tubing from morebeer.com for my hot-side. Guess now I will use it for everything .

Did anyone order from McMaster? Just curious if that's the right stuff. I've been using a SS racking cane with an air stone (and air filter) for aerating my wort but it's a real PIA to connect all the hoses etc. And the reason I use the racking cane is because normal tubing maintains it's memory and I cannot guarantee it's straight - but the silicon tubing would just straighten out by the weight of the air stone (i think). Saving me a lot of trouble.

caskconditioned said:

Did anyone order from McMaster? Just curious if that's the right stuff. I've been using a SS racking cane with an air stone (and air filter) for aerating my wort but it's a real PIA to connect all the hoses etc. And the reason I use the racking cane is because normal tubing maintains it's memory and I cannot guarantee it's straight - but the silicon tubing would just straighten out by the weight of the air stone (i think). Saving me a lot of trouble.

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I ordered some from McMaster and the rest from Morebeer.com. Morebeer was a bit cheaper for the same stuff, but they had limited sizes. McMaster has almost any size you can imagine, and they have the thinner stuff you would need for an aeration system. I think the idea of using silicone for your oxygenation system could be a great idea -- it would make it really easy to heat sanitize the parts that come in contact with wort, plus no memory in the line (what a PITA).

The best place I found for the silicone tubing was at

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=7511&product%5Fid=8415


It is only 88 cents a foot for the stuff I got (3/8 inner diameter, 1/2 outer), but you must buy in 10' lengths (I got 20' never need to buy vinyl again!)

I wish I'd picked up some other stuff on that order though, they have a lot of labware that would be useful for yeast culturing/banking etc.

Is the 1/16" wall thickness sufficient for normal brewing purposes? (such as 3/8 ID x 1/2 OD) or is it important to go to the 1/8" wall thickness (such as 3/8 ID x 5/8 OD)?

Not surprisingly, the 1/8" wall thickness tubing is about twice the price, but 1/16" seems like a really thin wall for something as soft as silicone... I would be worried about it kinking too easily, etc... But I've never seen it in person, so I can't be sure.

If the 3/8x1/2" is suitable, that really is a great price and I'd definitely order some ASAP.

Funkenjaeger said:

Is the 1/16" wall thickness sufficient for normal brewing purposes? (such as 3/8 ID x 1/2 OD) or is it important to go to the 1/8" wall thickness (such as 3/8 ID x 5/8 OD)?

Not surprisingly, the 1/8" wall thickness tubing is about twice the price, but 1/16" seems like a really thin wall for something as soft as silicone... I would be worried about it kinking too easily, etc... But I've never seen it in person, so I can't be sure.

If the 3/8x1/2" is suitable, that really is a great price and I'd definitely order some ASAP.

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I bought a length of very similar stuff from McMaster-Carr for about .90/ft. It seems fine for transfer hoses.

Those of you using 3/8 ID silicone tubing, do you have any issues with the tubing slipping off 3/8" OD tubing at the worst possible time? Do you use hose clamps or trust to friction to keep the tubing and the racking tube together?

AiredAle said:

Those of you using 3/8 ID silicone tubing, do you have any issues with the tubing slipping off 3/8" OD tubing at the worst possible time? Do you use hose clamps or trust to friction to keep the tubing and the racking tube together?

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It seems there is a bit of a 'Chinese finger puzzle' effect with the tubing, but not when it is wet. I am clamping it down with some automotive style hose clamps.

All of the vinyl tubing I've used for racking has always been 5/16" ID, which is slightly undersized for 3/8" fittings and makes a nice friction fit. I was planning to get silicone tubing in 5/16" as well, hopefully even though it's stretchier it'll still make a watertight seal on 3/8" racking canes?

Good call -- damn, maybe that's what I should have done.

I use silicone for my mash reciculating, and for transferring hot/cold wort to/from plate cooler. Especially for the cooler thing i can sanitize whole wort line with boiling water.

Here is a life expectancy table for silicone hoses...
2min. to 10min @ 480°C
10min. to 2h @ 425°C
6h to 1w @ 370°C
1w to 2mth @ 315°C
3mth to 2y @ 260°C
2y to 5y @ 200°C
5y to 10y @ 150°C
10y to 20y @ 120°C <-- pressure cooker temp

So even given some mechanical stress, it will still outlast vinyl many times.

The chinese finger trap effect is a drawback of silicone. But the narrowing effect when pulling, does also work the other way around - it will bulge when compressed. So it can be countered if you dont press your hose all the way up against something. Get a couple of fingers behind the end of the hose and push it off instead of pulling.

And yes, like someone else mentioned, they can be pressure cooked. Now you can actually use the same hoses for both beer and lambics. Nothing will survive a good boil in the good ole' steam bomb.

Oh, and also - silicone hose will not damage racking/bottling cane like vinyl tubing does when you try to get some stuck vinyl hose off the hard brittle plastic.

Cheers
Jakob