Visual O2 permeation of silicone…For anyone who wants to see it with their own eyes;

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Broken Crow

Ale's what cures 'ya
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We’ve all seen stained hoses, but hey; ..”maybe that’s just a film?”.. Our most prized silicone hoses and gaskets often advertise as being ‘Platinum cured” and that’s a good thing because it makes for a less-porous surface. The key word in that is “Less”…Not ‘Non-‘. While this example may not be platinum-cured, it is nonetheless, ‘Food-Grade’. This is basically a bevelled o-ring from a thermal travel-mug I got at work some years back and gave to my girlfriend who used it as her bedside table water glass. Over the years it has faced the microbes of atmosphere and backwash, and as such, the resultant growth over time illustrates something often talked about on here. As a spoiled batch or just an off-taste or simple preventative practice, usually guides us to replace our silicone parts before we can see it, we don’t usually get to actually see what has happened within the structure of our tubes and gaskets. My girlfriend really liked this mug and used it for years… The thing about any common microbial growth is that it can only penetrate as deep as there is a supply of oxygen. Well, even after thoroughly scrubbing, here for your own eyes, is the penetration of O2 in silicone:
O2SiliconePen.jpg
 
That's gross for sure. Those stains could be fungal and/or bacterial. I hope you can find a replacement for your girlfriend's favorite bedside drinking vessel.

Though my silicone hoses become brownish with use (camlock gaskets less so), I haven't seen this kind of black stuff in the brewery.
 
That's gross for sure. Those stains could be fungal and/or bacterial. I hope you can find a replacement for your girlfriend's favorite bedside drinking vessel.

Though my silicone hoses become brownish with use (camlock gaskets less so), I haven't seen this kind of black stuff in the brewery.
Yeah, we replaced it it, thanks :) My point in posting it though: There is nothing on the surface in this pic..It's all inside the silicone. On our hot-side in brewing, we routinely kill everything before it pentrates and gets a foothold, nevertheless, I feel this pic well illustrates that internal O2 pathways have been established and despite not seeing it in our tubing, these same O2 pathways are there.
 
The thing about any common microbial growth is that it can only penetrate as deep as there is a supply of oxygen.
I don't think anyone should doubt that silicone is highly oxygen permeable, but plenty of common microbes can grow both aerobically and anaerobically.
 
I just threw up in my mouth a little...
Sorry about that! For the record; this was regularly cleaned, but due to some upheaval, it missed a cleaning and sat around for a while so I thought before throwing it out it would me nice to share the visible path of O2 within silicone.
 
Replying to one of your older threads, after you sent me here from:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/silicone-gaskets-and-sanitation.732176/

Sorry about that! For the record; this was regularly cleaned, but due to some upheaval, it missed a cleaning and sat around for a while so I thought before throwing it out it would me nice to share the visible path of O2 within silicone.
Isn't the main issue that these o-rings aren't (easily) replaceable?

The o-rings are made to fit a certain type of container, and are not for sale by themselves, AFAIK. The container can last decades, but the critical $0.10 seal not so much.

Wouldn't it be grand if we could easily buy those seals separately, such as in a 5- or 10-pack? That could extend the useful life of our favorite container(s), and in more sanitary harmony.
 
At the time I posted this, I had seen a number of threads in which it seemed like some folk didn't actually understand what "permeability" really meant. Since there is no surface crud on this gasket (that black mold or whatever is all internal), I thought it might serve as a visual aid.
:mug:
 
The intrusion of liquids or solids into the body of a silicone object is unexpected. Silicone can be made porous, but our gaskets and tubing don't seem to be porous to anything except gases. And yet...

The discoloration and odor from ordinary brewing use suggests (demonstrates?) that liquid intrudes into silicone. And the black stuff inside
the gasket in @Broken Crow's girlfriend' s water bottle suggests that bacteria or fungi can invade silicone, not just coat it.

All this suggests that cold-side silicone might be undesirable for reasons beyond the goal of avoiding oxygen.
 
At the time I posted this, I had seen a number of threads in which it seemed like some folk didn't actually understand what "permeability" really meant. Since there is no surface crud on this gasket (that black mold or whatever is all internal), I thought it might serve as a visual aid.
:mug:
Oh yeah, you provided a tell tale example of permeability. Your visual aid shows some of that gruesome reality.

One may claim what doesn't come out with thorough cleaning, soaking, bleaching, or boiling in detergents or bleach isn't going to do much harm either, but it's hard to ignore what we see.

Or should we just use black o-rings and seals, they don't show those problems. ;)
 
GlobalOring.com has these:
  • 1/2'' Camlock Gasket
  • MATERIAL: EPDM, PURPLE
  • ID: 11/16'' (17.48 MM)
  • OD: 1 1/32'' (26.19 MM)
  • Th: 5/32'' (3.96 MM)
$12.60 for 20, not too shabby, but ground shipping to Oregon would add $16.93. And I'd still have silicone tubing :confused:

Silicone is flexible, heat-tolerant, translucent. The only other heat-tolerant tubing I've used was opaque and much more stiff than silicone. Hmmm.
 
O2 permeable
Yes. I was down the rabbit hole of black fungal/bacterial intrusion into silicone, whose permeability surely adds some hot-side aeration during whirlpool. Not sure how it compares to the fairly placid kettle surface (~190in.² in my case).

All I've seen in the silicone is browning - nothing like @Broken Crow reported. I have seen that black stuff in a water bottle gasket at some point.
 
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