difference in carbonation between 12 and 22 oz bottles

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wood7588

wood7588

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Hello all,
My brother and I are relatively new brewers (we have made 3 batches) who have run into strange situation. We have bottled our brew in both 12 and 22 oz bottles. The 12 oz bottles condition very well in three weeks but the 22s dont. The 22 oz never seem to to develop much carbonation at all. Am doing something wrong with the 22s? I bottle them the same way that I bottle the 12s and the head space in the top of the bottles is almost the same as the 12s? Am I filling the 22s to far? I am kind of stumped.
Thanks.
 
wood7588 said:
I bottle them the same way that I bottle the 12s and the head space in the top of the bottles is almost the same as the 12s?
Click to expand...
The logical first question is: well, how are you bottling the 12's then?

A difference in carbonation between two bottles (regardless of size) immediatly points to a potential difference in the amount of priming sugar per unit volume of beer. If you're doing it by adding priming sugar to each bottle, then I think I've got an idea of the problem.;)

I have never noticed any significant differences between 12oz and 22oz bottles in the past, using the proper method of priming (boil the sugar with some water, add to bottling bucket, rack wort on and stir, then bottle)
 
I've noticed when bottling a mix of 12's and 22's that the 22's do take a couple weeks longer than the 12's to go fully carbed...They're all getting the same amount of priming sugar since it's boiled and added to the bottling bucket at racking....It's always seemed logical to me that since there's a greater volume of beer in the 22's that it takes a little longer for the CO2 to build up and saturate the beer enough to carb...It's never been a big deal to me, I just don't crack the larger bottles till the end of the batch.
 
One of the factors in the priming method of carbonating bottles is the amount of headspace relative to the volume of beer.

That headspace actually plays a role in CO2 being produced, and then reabsorbed into the liquid.

The more headspace-to-liquid ratio you have, the faster the beer carbonates.

A 22-ounce bottle will have nearly identical headspace volume because the neck of the bottle is very nearly the same size as a 12-ouncer.

Simple math would tell you that a 22 ounce bottle will take 83% longer to carbonate.

Bottling into 22-ounce bottles will force you to age your beer even longer and you'll reap the benefits. :D
 
BierMuncher said:
One of the factors in the priming method of carbonating bottles is the amount of headspace relative to the volume of beer.

That headspace actually plays a role in CO2 being produced, and then reabsorbed into the liquid.

The more headspace-to-liquid ratio you have, the faster the beer carbonates.

A 22-ounce bottle will have nearly identical headspace volume because the neck of the bottle is very nearly the same size as a 12-ouncer.

Simple math would tell you that a 22 ounce bottle will take 83% longer to carbonate.

Bottling into 22-ounce bottles will force you to age your beer even longer and you'll reap the benefits. :D
Click to expand...

You're my hero, BM :mug:

Question oh wise one;

If I want to bottle my Porkfelwein in champagne magnums (since porkfelwein is the new christal of course) what percant longer will they take to carbonate? :D
 
Just my 2cents, but when I use both 12 and 22oz bottles I always wait to drink the 22oz bottles untill all the 12oz ones are gone and havent noticed a difference. But i could just be a noob :D I say just give it some more time and it should work itself out. Paitence is a virtue in the homebrew world. It is just hard to wait on the good stuff!!!!!!!!!



SD
 
BierMuncher said:
Simple math would tell you that a 22 ounce bottle will take 83% longer to carbonate.
Click to expand...

Will you provide reference(s) to the simple math please? I can handle complex math too if needed... :)
 
Thanks for the replys. I am sorry I forgot to mention that we add the priming sugar to the bottling bucket before we rack from the carboy. Then we bottle both size bottles at the same time. I can see the logic in the headspace to volume ratio. Since it is nearly double a 12 oz bottle it would need nearly twice the time. We seem to give it away to friends so quickly that we dont have anymore left 6 weeks after bottling. Our first batch of hefe was not very carbonated after 6 weeks but I think that was because of a brewer error on our part. I will let the 22s sit for another 3 weeks and see what happens. Thanks again.
 
acr4 said:
Will you provide reference(s) to the simple math please? I can handle complex math too if needed... :)
Click to expand...

I think the math was 22/12, or 1.83, or that the 22oz is 183% the volume of the 12.

If I follow, the deal is that the headspace and surface area is practically identical while the volume of beer under it is much greater. I think it assumes a linear relationship between headspace/volume ratio and carbing time. I don't think that's necessarily the way it is, but my own anecdotal observations do suggest that the phenomanon is real, even if our number modeling isn't perfect yet.
 
My elementary understanding is that as the priming sugars are fermented under pressure, CO2 is released in to the open head space. As the CO2 pressure of that headspace is increased, the gas will reabsorb back into the liquid in order to maintain a balance. The more liquid is in the bottle, relative to the headspace, the longer this process takes.

Once the equalized pressures reach a certain limit, the PSI can get high enough to basically "knock out" the yeast and the process. Hopefully though, the fermentable sugars have been exhausted and the process stops before this. Otherwise...we end up with gushers or bottle bombs.
 

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